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Return to Article: Unlike Obama, Senate Likes GPS Backup

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  Fred, I both agree and disagree with you regarding any number of programs that could or should be reduced or cut completely. I don't support big government or entitlements, on the other hand I'm a firm believer that just about everyone at some point in their life will need some temporary help, but no long term free rides. As a young man I made lots of mistakes and barely survived a few of them, I never received any help from the government, but there was a time or two that just a little help would have made the difference and in fact would have provided a completely different outcome. As far as celestial navigation goes it's getting rare to even find people who have been trained and competent in the use of a sextant, I haven't picked one up for anything but a conversation piece since the mid eighties. I've spent a lot of time on the ocean and I agree I seldom even turned on the Loran other than to ensure it operated properly, but I still support it as a back up system. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

  David Posted June 23, 2009 8:43 AM
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  Following the comments just proves my point of why our federal budget is such a disaster. Yes, I have gone a couple of days in bad weather without getting a good fix. And yes, in when close in and unable to get a good fix, I have headed out to open water. I have been in places where Loran wasn't good enough and thus the stars gave me the best fix. I have seen it all. But since GPS, I have never used Loran or the Stars except to teach a newbie how we did it in the old days. The need for a back up to GPS at any price is a waste of tax money. If the commercial fishing and shipping industry wants it, they should pay an annual fee to keep it. Let the users vote with their own wallets instead of the generic federal budget of "free money". That will clearly show if the industry honestly believes they "need" a backup to GPS. Come on, the only reason Congress wants it is to keep the marine industry campaign contributions coming in. No more & no less.

  Fred Chitty Posted June 22, 2009 12:44 PM
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  Having done a good bit of commercial fishing and sailing I would have to say using a sextant to navigate via the stars is at best a third level fallback position, this would particularly be true for folks who are operating in coastal areas inside of fifteen or twenty miles. It's relatively easy to make a minor error using a sextant while being perched on a moving object, if the individual is in fairly close this could be disastrous. I have witnessed the improvements in navigation beginning in the seventies with Loran A, Loran C, GPS, relatively affordable radar, fathometers, decent sonar, etc. and what that has done for safety and to free up people to be more productive. The few million dollars we are talking about is well worth the expense and in comparison to the amount of money this administration is spending on things of no real or potential value this would be some of the best money they could spend for the potential return in safety, lives saved, we could also include supporting small business. I believe this redundancy is something we should maintain and continue to improve.

  David Posted June 22, 2009 10:02 AM
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  Not enough money going to ACORN for Obama to like it?

  Tom Posted June 16, 2009 2:24 PM
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  While I do NOT like speaking on topics I have little or no knowledge (Go ahead, Tom. There's your opening); I must admit to liking back-ups. Old Tar seemed to hit the nail on the head. Redundancy is a risk management and recovery tool. Considering the mission and users, the stakes here seem as high as the priority of cutting the budget; and I haven't heard any contra indicators saying this wasn't worth the money to be spent on it. I will have to bow to more knowledgeable heads on this one.

  And no, Skeeter and Tom, I don't always sign off on all BO's actions; I just admit to not knowing ALL the facts and ... Sitting here; still hoping, waiting, and watching. If he doesn't do what I elected him to do, then I'll have to judge for myself based on the results; but I MUST give him a chance 'cause he's the best game I've seen in town to date.

  Tip off Posted June 16, 2009 1:42 PM
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  Hey! It is another way for obamas buddies to sneak in under the radar. Why not make Americans less technically advanced. Change it is! No more advancement. Schedule another corporate 200 million dollar stimulus party? obama will attend for sure!

  kachonka Posted June 16, 2009 2:23 AM
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  C'mon, Fred;

  Sure we can use the stars, so long as you can see them. That's why Loran was developed - you can't always see them, and waiting days (or sometimes weeks when rounding Cape Horn) to get a "fix" is not realistic. It wasn't sixty years ago, and it isn't now.

  That also begs the question of how to teach all those budding celestial navigators how to use Bowdich, GMT, and sextants to figure out where they might be.

  There are reasons to employ technology to help us, and as great as GPS is, it is subject to failures that Loran and eLoran are not.

  This is not about a "government program that never dies". It's about having some redundancy in a key technology. Sort of like having more than one bridge or tunnel into Manhattan, or Pittsburg, or St. Louis, or... you get the idea.

  Old Tar Posted June 15, 2009 4:49 PM
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  Not only does eLoran provide an alternative for navigation, it also provides a Stratum 1 clock source for cellular telephone systems. $37M is chump change indeed for a system that provides an alternative for both applications.

  arclight Posted June 15, 2009 9:24 AM
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  There is no problem with the eLoran system if it is used. How many GPS systems are set to jump over to Loran? This is the number that should drive the backup.

  Thomas Adams Posted June 15, 2009 8:42 AM
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  What a lot of balony to spend "only 36 million federal tax payer dollars" for the "only viable backup to the satellite based GPS system used for position, navigation and timing worldwide". Give me a break! Long before Loran & GPS, navigators used the stars in the sky for both marine & aviation navigation. It still works with great accuracy. In fact Loran was originally the "back up" for the stars. This is nothing more than another example of how broken Congress is. Congress is completely unable to cut a program or balance the budget.

  Fred Posted June 15, 2009 8:41 AM