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Return to Article: Personnel chief isn't waiting on Congress to begin hiring reforms

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  It is about time that the KSA's were eliminated. The VA is hurting for employees but the VA, in it's hurry to downsize got crazy in it's downsizing and chopped off it's own foot by eliminating the human element in the hiring process by closing down and digitalizing hiring process. I believe tha paperwork is important. The VA has done well in its hiring even with the old SF 71. It was the security background checks and the personal interviews that really gave us the system we have had and I believe it has been successful as it can be for a bureaucracy. It took me three years after twenty years in the military to get into the VA on an SF 71. I have am aware of alot of Veterans who dispite their military training and credentialing could not get in the VA because they did not know what the buzz words were when they applyied through USA Jobs or the other websites. The application process is burdensome. The KSA's do not help either because they are not used equally even within the same VA like ours. Topeka doesn't use them but Leavenworth does for most off their positions. When you ask for assistance or a facimilie to help with the application you get a blank stare and get directed to a book store. It should be done away with so the VA can get along with the business of hiring.

  Solomon Herrera Posted July 9, 2009 11:16 PM
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  This is all well and good, but what about taking care of the people you already have? I rejoined the Federal system after spending 23 years as a Professional. At that time the position I accepted was an GS 11/12. After a HR mishap I was granted my GS12 just a little over 1 year later even though my Supervisor recommended, because of my experience, a jump to GS12 after I had been on board for 6 months. His request was turned down. Now I am in NSPS after converting from a GS12-4 to YD-2. I am a Registered Architect. If I was being hired today as a new employee I would be coming in as at least an evualivent to a GS13. Because I have stayed with the system, my salary is no where near what it should be.

  The last NSPS round (our first) was a dismal failure. It was clear after a misshap when an ecell document with every person showing their salary, number of shares received was published that the former GS15's got 5-6 shares, former GS14's got 4-5shares, former GS13's got 3-4 shares and former GS 12's got 2 shares. It seemed to have nothing to do with performance. It was quite clear that the "good old boy network" was still very hard at work. Two shares of an already small salary is highly unsatisfactory.

  Will the new reforms assess who they have and what they would have to offer to attain them today? Or do I have to leave the Federal system to get what I should be being paid?

  I suspect the parity system will only address the hiring of new people and leave us already loyal hard working people to lower and lower living standards.

  Jacalyn Habiger, RA Posted June 10, 2009 7:53 AM
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  Streamlining the application process - now there's a novel idea! Here's a hint: when you go onto USAJOBS, you would think you could actually apply for a job through this website - not necessarily so. Most of the time when you cick on "apply' you are thrown into that agency's website application, and even for a summer job for students, they have to answer all kinds of ludricrous questions. even for a lifeguard job. Good luck with getting agencies to streamline this!

  Suzanne Posted May 18, 2009 9:08 AM
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  Hey Frustrated,

  Do you really think that changes in process will change hiring outcomes within DOD? After all, hiring outcomes are what really matter. DOD has for years and continues to this day purportes to recruit outside of itself yet it hires almost exclusively only and merely DOD staffers nearly 100% of the time in the mid and upper pay ranges in the general and financial management fields (and most likely many others). Changing mere process is not what's needed. Changing the insular "we take care of our own" organizational culture that needs changing and cleansing sunlight.

  Besides, does anyone really, really believe that excellence is only gained or demonstrated within the nearly 100% inbred confines of mere DOD organizations? And if you do, then you must also believe in the Tooth Fairy and be a card-carrying member of the Flat Earth Society....

  Michael J. Smith, MPA Posted May 13, 2009 1:05 PM
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  So, Mr Berry...we want to hire engineers who design cars with all kinds of flaws and problems to work for the government? Let's let these people be associated with our aircraft, what could it hurt? Geez...

  Finance Guy Posted May 13, 2009 8:51 AM
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  KSAs and ECQs (for SES) are very time consuming. However, that is a minor inconvenience compared to the approval process for the offer of a new SES position. I was offered an SES position coming in from industry, subject to the OPM approval process. However, it had to pass through several HR layers in DoD and then get past OPM. Over 3 months later, I am still waiting on an OPM approval. No wonder it is so difficult to get folks from industry to seek senior government positions.

  Frustrated Posted May 12, 2009 10:52 PM
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  Berry already has all the experience he needs its called Vets and he has all the authority he needs to hire them its called the "LAW". The problem historically is the animus that CS have for Vets. They hate the fact that these guys hit the ground running want to get the job done and don't like hearing "that's the way we have always done". Mikey is the poster boy for the reg says we can't do it that way, and it can't be done. Time for these folks to retire

  dan m letter Posted May 12, 2009 9:41 PM
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  Great! That will make it easier for the DeCA to enhance its cronyism and nepotism which already runs rampant at the agency.

  LB Posted May 12, 2009 7:42 PM
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  I am shocked that there is support for KSAs. My experience is that they are almost entirely useless and are often not even written by the applicant. They are an unnecessary burden on job applicants that add very little value to the process. As they are not standard private sector practice, applicants new to Government are confused and turned off by them. (In fact, I suspect the support for them comes from Government insiders who know that KSAs give them an added advantage over outside hires!)

  Agencies would be better off eliminating KSAs which would streamline the hiring process and make it more friendly to outside applicants. We need to expand our field of applicants, KSAs do the opposite.

  Michael Elkin Posted May 12, 2009 12:11 PM
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  Do away with the DOD revolving door. Require all military personnel a cooling off period before applying for a position related to their last assignment.

  mudpie Posted May 12, 2009 11:26 AM
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  Do away with pre-identified candidates application "Who Can Apply" manipulation. (Only open to local candidates in the brown building wearing a red shirt...lol)

  Announcements should be open to all US Citizens period. May the best qualified get hired.

  mudpie Posted May 12, 2009 11:24 AM
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  Seems these suggestions could be synthesized and used by OPM. Make applicants create/upload a new resume for each job (do not store in tne system); stipulate a maximum number of pages (and font size) for job announcements; eliminate KSAs for jobs below the GS 13 level (and equivalent); force hiring officials to make a DECISION and job offer within two weeks after the applications are screened; require agencies to convert term hires to permanent after one year (instead of annually renewing a term hire); survey agencies to determine why interns are not hired and address whatever issues are uncovered. Note: We don't want to FORCE agencies to hire a percentage of interns because that could cause them to pull out of the intern program altogether.

  Charleen Posted May 12, 2009 9:36 AM
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  I agree with the other comments suggesting that the system be streamlined, but KSA's not eliminated. With the use of automation it IS very easy to apply now, just the push of a button. Applicants apply for any and all, not always showing interest later in the location or grade (and wasting everyone's time to boot). Then the HR specialists have to go through that volume of work. I could see eliminating KSA's for some lower level jobs, but not more specialized ones, especially IT jobs. Everyone wants to streamline and become like private industry, but we are not the same. Private can eliminate candidates from the process at any time. Once we have the applications, KSA's, etc., we have to rank them, then it's pretty set in stone (see the comment from sme, it's nearly impossible to rank with just a resume). The answer will be to implement a way to be more flexible like private, but still follow all the rules and regs. Perhaps after a prescreen the top candidates should submit more info? Let's hope OPM uses the HR staff in the trenches to develop a plan.

  HR Spec Posted May 12, 2009 9:06 AM
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  Every time they try to "streamline" the hiring process they just make it worse. Gunner has it right - get rid of the centralized personnel offices. Ours has started "reinterpreting" the rules to eliminate most applicants, regardless of masters, certifications, etc. I never thought it could get this bad.

  Andy Neilsen Posted May 12, 2009 8:34 AM
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  If it's so darn important (and it truly is) then can someone explain why there's a hiring freeze in the VA? Vet's loosing jobs, transitioning out of the service, nervous about the economy, stressed enough and trying everything to simply deal with the nightmares of their recent service without going "postal" from the frustration or "bonkers" from the cocktail of meds that they keep shoving down their throat. Time for the VA to "man-up" and make the HR folks do their job don't you think?

  JF Posted May 12, 2009 8:33 AM
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  I work with one of the engineers from Detroit. He has a home he can't sell because of the economy in Michigan. His family lives there while he rents a room in Virginia. It has caused a great deal of stress for all involved. One bright note is that his supervisor allows him to telework from Michigan for one to two week periods when he goes back home to visit his family!

  Phil Posted May 12, 2009 7:54 AM
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  Thank goodness! KSA are like a full blown written interview before it is determined if a person is qualified or not. The HR specialist who bemoans applicants not understanding the process neglects the fact that communication is the government's responsibility and the vast numbers of misunderstood vacancy announcements... well all sides agree there is a problem. Trading wasting HR time on people who don't understand the vacancy to wasting their time on people who fluff their resume or training them how to read them to determine eligibility is a wash at worst, and a boon at best. This is not to mention that I bet if you asked any of those who applied for something they didn't realize was inappropriate for them, "would you have taken the time to apply and respond to the KSAs?"... they would certainly say "NO!"

  KSA's are a waste of everyone's time, applicant, and HR, and selection official. Yes, they can be helpful but are NOT needed for EVERY applicant. These are questions that need to be answered ONLY by those determined eligible, and those selected for an interview. Selection official, if these written responses are useful, then ask only a subset of applicants to write KSA's, then, from that group, select who will be interviewed in person.

  Woody Posted May 11, 2009 4:58 PM
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  OPM can tinker all they want with process. But the real (not faux) problem that is with DoD's near 100% internal and insider hiring rate for positions that DOD purportedly recruits in the search for excellence. This inbred hiring rate represents the outcome of "external" (federal-wide and/or all sources area of consideration) hiring actions in the higher grades (e.g., GS 12-15) in the general administrative management series (e.g., GS-0300 and GS-0500 classifications).

  Internal hires are defined as current agency employees. Insider hires are defined as prior agency employees, including so-called 'conversions' of recently retired members of the agency's active duty admin support military into the very same desk and chair from which they retired, or contract employees of the hiring agency.

  Although this near 100% inbred hiring practice is by no means present in all federal organizations, it is rampant within DOD orgs - the largest of all federal agencies. At the end of the day, and despite much lip service about "searching for excellence," these outcomes speak volumes about the nature of these actions and the organizational culture that is present. Essentially every single one of these surmised external to DOD recruitments result in identical outcomes: More and more internal/insider "we take care of our own (at the US taxpayer's expense)" hires.

  Although I realize that the foregoing may sound as if I am a disgruntled federal employee, in reality I am not. In fact, I am far from it. I have enjoyed an extremely successful and uncommonly diverse federal career spanning several agencies across our Nation for the last 33 years, including a tenure as Presidential Management Fellow at one of the genuinely finest federal organizations - the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. And over that time I have seen the very good, good, bad, and the downright ugly.

  My motivation is that I simply care. And I care enough to at least attempt to change the wrongheaded culture for the betterment of the organizations and for those that support us - the United States taxpayers. And to that end, I suggest that GOVEXEC ought to specifically address this area of public import that is in so much need of cleansing sunlight.

  Michael J. Smith, MPA Posted May 11, 2009 4:01 PM
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  Hope they will start hiring disable people.....

  dhs Posted May 11, 2009 2:04 PM
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  I have worked as a contractor, have a great resume, master level education and for over 5 years have completed KSAs and still no job - SAMHSA, CDC, IHS, HRSA - come on the system is broken. Indian health service is the worst of all- search are 85% IHS wide - what a great recycle program. Seeking the same low level health status for Indians, interested and already an IHS employee? You are encouraged to apply, if you want to make a difference don't bother!

  diane Posted May 11, 2009 1:54 PM
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  What we really need is to get rid of centralized personnel offices. When we were able to hire at the local level we actually could hire somebody and able to get better candidates. Now the Personnel Specialists spend more time looking to see who forgot to send KSA's, SF-50 or transcripts so they can eliminate them as candidates. I had a state law enforcent officer on our task force apply for a slot in our office. He had 11 years of law enforcement experience and didn't get hired because the personnel specialist told him "he lacked law enforcement related experience". Had that personnel specialist been in my office I would have put a size 10 boot up her you know what. And we wonder why we have a hard time getting qualified people. Would you want to apply again if you got that kind of answer?

  Gunner Posted May 11, 2009 1:30 PM
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  Again, someone at a top level who has never really worked HR at the functional level trying to make changes to something they have no clue as to the impact. One person complains and everything is changed because he/she was to lazy to do KSAs; or he/she doesn't like to complete something on-line / or paper copy (whichever).

  You people wonder why it now takes so long to hire anyone? IT'S TOO EASY to apply! I have to wade through 500 applications from idiots that "apply" for everything on a given day. They simply have to click a box. If they do manage to be qualified and are selected, they "didn't realize the job was" 1) temp/TERM; 2) doesn't pay the move; 3) is part-time; 4) is at a certain location; 5) isn't the grade/pay they want; 6) fill in the blank-I could go on and on. This is most troubling on DEU lists because of the 500 apps, 450 are vets who block the truly interested people.

  I say make applicants submit a resume and backup documentation for EACH job. Believe me, only those truly interested would apply and it would go faster. I though technology was to make things more efficient. In this case it's made the hiring process time consuming and applicants lazy with an entitlement complex.

  Another HR SPECIALIST/Citizen Posted May 11, 2009 1:12 PM
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  Bruce, you raise a good point. Given your example I think KSAs should be required at higher pay bands and for specific jobs. That being said, isn't it a bit ridiculous for an applicant for a GS-7 logistician position be required to complete a 143-question-and-supply-examples-of-experience process cynically labeled "Quickhire?" Out of curiosity, I printed the alleged quickhire question; 32 pages later, they were faxed to Sen. Mikulski and Cong. Steny Hoyer's offices as an example of the lunacy of federal job applications. [And, yes, I used my own fax.]

  Jackson Richards Posted May 11, 2009 12:39 PM
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  The hiring process does need some streamlining. However, the biggest improvement would come from having an HR staffing workforce that was appropriately sized and dedicated to accomplishing the mission and satisfying the customer. My experience with staffing specialists is that most are nine to fivers processing the paperwork to get through the day. However, during the early 1990's, I had the opportunity to work with a true HR professional for several years. In spite of statutory impediments, she was able to get around Agency impediments and speed the process. If only her performance was the norm rather than the exception among HR staffing specialists.

  Tom Posted May 11, 2009 12:38 PM
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  Since Congress wrote the legislation on how federal hiring is supposed to be processed, Mr. Berry cannot just "change it". There are many Executive Orders which have to be considered as well. Most applicant resumes are nonsensical. KSA's help determine who is the best qualified.

  Question: who in HR is going to maintain the "applicant files"...and determine which position they might want to bid on????

  People move, change phone numbers and e-mail's and no one would be able to reach them if their resume was "on file" for six months to a year before an opening occurred. That suggestion is a nightmare.

  I support streamlining the process...just not a wholesale destruction/reconstruction.

  Government employee Posted May 11, 2009 12:28 PM
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  I still say - if you already have a current security clearance at one agency and get another job in a different agency - why do you have to go through the process again? Why can't your current clearance be used until it's time for the automatic renewal which would then be conducted by your new agency. Just doesn't make any sense to me but I seem to be the only one who asks the question.

  Sunshine Posted May 11, 2009 10:40 AM
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  OPM should not eliminate KSA essays that the applicant must answer. As a person who has been a scientist/administrative Subject Matter Expert and the Selecting Offical; I find these essays very important. I have had applicants whose resumes would get them an interview, but their narrative responses indicate they do not understand the work they will be asked to do or they indicate they do not have the time to thoughtfully answer the questions. I once had an applicant for a communications position whose answers were in text message mode; no capitalization, no punctuation, etc. The job would require them to write press releases, research summaries, etc.; thus their mode of essay response indicated they were not suited for this job. I would agree that the multi-choice questions are of minimal use for me, but our HR uses these to screen applicants for my review.

  Bruce Posted May 11, 2009 10:39 AM
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  bout time !! I have applied for a job at CDC at least 12 times, but yet they keep hiring contrators. I was told I should quit my federal job and come to CDC as a contractor! isnt that ridiculous ?? so many agencies list job openings but they never fill them and I know I am qualified for the positions !! I have been rejected every time! something is wrong at CDC !!

  Theresa Posted May 11, 2009 10:31 AM
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  bout time !! I have applied for a job at CDC at least 12 times, but yet they keep hiring contrators. I was told I should quit my federal job and come to CDC as a contractor! isnt that ridiculous ?? so many agencies list job openings but they never fill them and I know I am qualified for the positions !! I have been rejected every time! something is wrong at CDC !!

  Theresa Posted May 11, 2009 10:30 AM
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  One of the biggest problems I see with hiring is the lag time between the interview and the actual selection. Also, after candidates are selected if they withdraw or decline the position, the manager can't go to the next candidate on the list. They have to wait until the position is announced again and go through the whole process again.

  Mary Booth Posted May 11, 2009 9:29 AM
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  One thing missing is try to hire recent college graduates via the internships. If the internships at DOE are an indication of how interns are hired, it presents significant opportunity for improvement. DOE internship coordinator does not answer phone and his mailbox has been full for a long time. And he has no time or interest to answer his e-mail.

  As a result the interns with connection are hired. What an unfair process.

  Like other agencies, DOE fails to offer fulltime jobs after completion of internships. Less than 5% of interns are hired. Private industry hires nearly 65% of interns and should serve as a model for federal govt.

  Director Berry should provide some guidance to agencies to make the internship-selection process fair and improve the hiring of recent college grads via the internship.

  Steve Singal, Esq. Posted May 11, 2009 9:27 AM
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  This is very encouraging news that is desperately needed if acquisition reform is going to happen. Federal hiring practices must be streamlined and reformed to ensure people who are willing and able to join the federal government have the opportunity to do so in a timely manner, and under a process that competes with the private sector and is merit based. Federal jobs need to go to those whose skill set and experience match those of a position, based on résumés and a system that can hire the right individual in a matter of weeks, and not months under the current process.

  Jaime Gracia Posted May 11, 2009 8:42 AM
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  Just what we need more legislation. No doubt championed by OPM who told the Congressmen that this was needed. When in actuality if you want us to staff jobs faster we need fewer laws. The problem with OPM is that almost none of the current staff has ever been a working level HR specialist. They have sought outside/new/private industry personnel to the point that they are clueless. They have no idea what it takes to staff a job and the effect that their regulations have on the process. The clueless with "brilliant" ideas leading the over-regulated equals a sluggish system.

  HR SPECIALIST Posted May 11, 2009 8:08 AM
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  Berry needs to eliminate term hires as well. This is a waste of tax dollars and puts a strain on the remaining office staff. This practice is rampant in the DOJ Antitrust Division and does not work!

  anonymous Posted May 11, 2009 8:00 AM
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  Mr. Berry is right on point! For those of us currently working in the HR/human capital area, this in a much needed boost and change of the "old school" methods. On the initiatives, Mr. Berry has again read the mail correctly. OPM gives the agencies too much "wiggle room" in compliance areas that could make the overall efficiency and effectiveness of the government much more attractive to applicants. I have been tracking Senator Voinovich for years and delightly to see that he has "pulled the covers off OPM" and its drag on progressive directives that could and should indeed move the Federal government into the 21st century, making it an attractive employer of choice and a leading employer.

  CB Posted May 11, 2009 7:40 AM
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  What wonderful ideas! And has there been any discussion on how these changes will be funded? OPM has always been great at planning and lousy at executing. I can see lots of guidance being issued and very little support be provided to the agencies that will be expected to execute some half developed ideas.

  jane medina Posted May 11, 2009 7:33 AM
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  Someone needs to do something about USDOL OASAM Philadelphia Region 3. Personnel who have worked in positions and have experience, OASAM HR personnel have continually rejected employees on the basis of not qualifying for the same position in a higher grade even though the person has already done the job and has enough time specialized experience in that area. The DOORs process needs totally revamped. The questions that are asked and answered by applicants should not be a basis for whether the employee qualifies for the entry-level position but a basis for what grade they qualify; the applicant's experience should be the basis. Philadelphia Regional III has the worse group of employees in the whole US. They hire people who lack experience and each one interprets the rules and regulations the way they personally choose to, not the way they are meant to be interpreted. Their inexperience and their attitude that they run the "show," so to speak, is negatively impacting the hiring, promoting, and general workforce for the whole USDOL especially MSHA.

  Concerned Federal Employee Posted May 11, 2009 6:48 AM
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  I am thrilled to see in the article that you are going to advocate using resume's versus KSA's which are very confusing for new people trying to get into Govt service. I have always used their resume (for people that got thru on the KSA's) since it gives much more information instead of canned statements. And, I sure hope you can make the hiring process easier--for it to take up to 5 months to get someone on board is ridiculous and don't let personnel tell you it takes less--it doesn't!!

  Susan Jackson Posted May 11, 2009 4:30 AM
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  OPM has done it again!!! Last it was fercca retirement violations that had to go to the high courts and millions of dollars in wrongful tax problems before they were ordered to correct retirement issues. I want what money I have out of that system. They have no leadership and anytime there is no leadership, there is no accountability and no accountability means nobody has to do anything but cover their own backs. It's a system of corruption where everyman's for themselves. They'll a bunch of renegades taking old folks pensions. No better than Maddoff and Enron. I believe they have stolen millions of dollars from former spouses over the years with their "court order acceptable for processing" and other unamended laws.

  And sad part is we can't fault the sloppy work at OPM nor can we fault the 5 directors holding that position in less than 2years. It is Congresses responsibility to require IRS to uphold federal pension laws. Your Congressman needs to insist that heads roll whenever OPM workers fails in their fiduciary responsibility towards retiree's, beneficiaries and other alternate payees of pension funds. Heck, private industry has more protections against waste, fraud and abuse than pension holders at OPM. They think they can just deny these court orders and not give people the opportunity to correct eventhough pension laws states otherwise. And it is the IRS responsibility to enforce OPM pension laws. It's really sad to heard about all the former spouses who have gone bankrupt, lost their homes and health and maybe even lose their lives because of OPM court order benefits branch holding court orders for years and never responding. And then when they do respond they come up with any absurd excuse that is rubber stamped by MSPB.

  linda Posted May 9, 2009 9:39 PM