Return to Article: Catch-62 Revisited
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70446
Followup on my Sept 05 2008 comment. Would like to be advised if there is ever any legislation proposed/enacted to correct this unjust problem. Is there a "watch-list" that those affected can subscribe to? Would appreciate knowing. Thank You Tammy For your continued efforts.
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67183
I retired under CSRS back at the end of 1999 at age 59. I earned 40 quarters under SS prior to working for the government. I paid the deposit for 4 years of military service and at age 62 saw no reduction in my CSRS pension. However, when I signed up for SS, I knew that my SS benefits would be reduced due to the WEP provision, but what I didn't know and what came as a big surprise, was that my SS benefits were further reduced because my 4 years of military service credit was used in the computation of my CSRS pension. This my friends were never covered in the many retirement seminars I attended prior to retirement. Also, I might point out that there is a SS regulation that provides for this further reduction of SS benefits when military credits are used in the computation of CSCR pensions.
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65559
I am a Retired Reserve OFficer, After 5 years I finally found the documentation and am in the process of "buying back" my years for civil service retirement. The problem, I was told that I would have to waive that portion of my military retirement by several administrators. I found the documentation to support my claim, and submitted a request. However I am having to pay the interest. Is this interest payment waiveable, since I was told specifically I would have to waive my military retirement?
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61166
As an attorney representing many CSRS and FERS annuitants, I can't tell you how many cases I see where a retiree is told that making the military service deposit is not going to affect your retirement annuity. Many of our clients are seeing reductions of $600-$1600 per month due to failure to pay the deposit.
My first advice - PAY the military service deposit before you retire. I have yet to meet a client that hasn't regretted failing to pay the deposit.
My second piece of advice - if you have been duped into not making the military service deposit (poor advice from retirement specialist, no advice from specialist, misrepresentations by specialist) - CONTACT an attorney! There are ways to (successfully) challenge the reduction of an annuity before the Merit Systems Protection Board.
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60653
I retired as an E-6 with 20 years of active duty service (joined in 1983 and retired in 2003), had two years of Fed Service prior to joining the military, and now I am a GS-10 with five more years of Federal service (seven total). I also have more than enough Social Security quarters now that I can collect at age 62. Some people tell me to buy back the time, and others tell me not to buy back the time. I have also asked HR people at work, but they don't seem that clear on it (at least with retirees). What should I do?
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59968
I attended a retirement seminar where I was advised to get a retirement estimate report from my agency which I did. I am in CSRS and my retirement gross with more than 38 years fed service and more than 40 credits of SS my retirement pay will be over $5300. per month. The report shows (in tiny print) that if I do not pay the military redeposit my retirement gross will be reduced to $3900. per month (it also explains that the survivor annuity would be reduced accordingly from $3000 to $2400.) I paid the $13,000 military deposit including the interest. I suggest to all CSRS employees: 1) Get a CSRS Benefit Estitmate Report 2) Get a Post-1956 Miltary Service Deposit Report 3) Get a Deposit report 4) Take these and go see the HR retirement specialist at your agency. 5) If you owe a deposit, determine if it is worth it and pay it before you retire.
The bottom line is that you are responsible for what happens to your retirement benefits. Get the information and "Git er done!"
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58456
RE:Doug replied - In a Personnel Employee bulletin from the DLA HR center is this - "If the annuitant later turns 62 and, at that time, becomes eligible for SS benefits, the annutiy will be recomputed to eliminate credit for post-56 military service. I questioned this and was led to believe that since I would be eligible for benefits through me wife's SS that this would in fact impact my annuity.
The bulletin reads "If the annuitant later turns 62 and, at that time, becomes eligible for SS benefits" Therefore, if at that time (62) you are eligible for benifits then, yes, it would impact your annuity. In my case I will have less than 40 quarters and my innuitly will NOT be impacted provided that OPM has been notified of my ineligibility for SS benifits. OPM only cares about my eligibility not my spouse's eligibility, so why should my CSRS annuity be penalized if she is eligible for SS and not me.
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58076
in reponse to comment by Michael Runyon. It is my understanding that if you are not eligible to receive Social Security at 62, but become eligible later, then at that point your pension will be reduced. You can't escape the reduction simply by waiting until later to earn the required 40 quarters. Maybe Tammy can confirm that. I am in that situation. I am currently over 62 and don't have the 40 quarters. However, 20 years ago I paid it back anyway since I may subsequently attain the 40 quarters. Also, I had this fear that OPM, upon seeing that I was 62 and had not paid it back, would not "talk" to Social Security and determine my eligibility, or lack of, and illegally reduce my pension anyway, leaving me to fight them on it for probably for the rest of my life. I've seen and read about things like this happening.
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58013
This isn't the fault of the potential retirees. The "specialist" that administer the system don't know what they are talking about and are quite frequently misinformed themselves as to the very confusing laws that govern retirement. I have personally been given a wrong retirement eligibility date. I would love to know if I had retired based on what they told me the first time if they would have recalled me for a do over? The HR people are over whelmed and uninformed about two very different retirement systems.
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58012
Tammy; Thank you for your efforts to alert all of us to "Catch-62". Your words have not fallen on deaf ears. This past year I inherited enough money to buy my five years of military time and add it to my CSRS total.
One other benefit of doing this early (aside from avoiding the interest) is that it will automatically increase any survivor benefit to your loved ones if you die before that magic retirement day.
My agency's Personnel Specialist did alert me to this "long ago and in a galaxy far, far away", but over the intervening 30 years I have only heard it discussed in two retirement seminars. Most of the HR specialists now working seem to have little understanding of the retirement process at all - so thanks again for your great column!
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58000
Re: -- Rob wrote - If you are CSRS and at age 62 will have less than 40 quarters than no need to pay back your military service. OPM although must be made aware from SSA prior to turning 62 that you are not eligible for SS benefits. I have never heard that if your spouse is eligible for SS benifits that you would be penalized for not paying your military service back. Please clarify this issue.
In a Personnel Employee bulletin from the DLA HR center is this - "If the annuitant later turns 62 and, at that time, becomes eligible for SS benefits, the annutiy will be recomputed to eliminate credit for post-56 military service.
I questioned this and was led to believe that since I would be eligible for benefits through me wife's SS that this would in fact impact my annuity.
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57985
I'm a military retire (20 yrs), receiving a monthly pension from the AF since I retired in 1999. I didn't opt to sell back my military retirement for the purpose of combining the federal and military retirement at the completion of the second career. Any pit falls that I should know about (i.e., at the point of the federal retirement I should expect one of the pensions to be reduced, or maybe although I have accumulated all of my required points to receive SS, I should expect some type of reduction/off-set? Words of wisdom would be appreciated now since I still have ten years to go on this second career. Thanks in advance!!!!
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57959
It is not hard to determine the damage to your retirement annuity if you don;t pay back military service. Just look at the many charts that are provided everywhere showing what your monthly annuity will be based upon time of service, either FERS or CSRS. Then reduce the time based upon the time of military service that you need to pay back. Take the larger number and subtract the smaller number and you will see the information in front of you in black and white numbers equating to dollars you will "NOT" recieve. If that doesn't make you wake up, no amount of any stimulant or help short of a kick in the ass, a swift slap to the head, and yelling, "Wake the heck up dummy, those are real dollars", will work.
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57937
After completing college many years ago I joined the military and served for 3 years. I then worked in industry for several years. I earned 39 credits of Social Security (SS) and now one credit short of 40 to qualify for SS. I now work for the US Government. I am 62 years old and now have about 35 years with my federal agency. I am under CSRS. I paid the deposit for my 3 years of military service way back when there was no interest. Please answer the following questions.
1. I assume the 3 years deposit I paid for military service will increase my CSRS to 38 years. Correct?
2. After I retire from CSRS should I work to earn one more credit of SS or would it be useless because of the WIP/WEP provision? What do you recommend?
3. Since I will use the 3 years deposit for CSRS can I also use it for SS or is it lost?
4. Any other advice?
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57923
If you are CSRS and at age 62 will have less than 40 quarters than no need to pay back your military service. OPM although must be made aware from SSA prior to turning 62 that you are not eligible for SS benifits. I have never heard that if your spouse is eligible for SS benifits that you would be penalized for not paying your military service back. Please clarify this issue.
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57877
Legalized Theft. That should have been the title of this article! I've posted here before, but it's still worth repeating: I served in the US military, paid SS benefits then, didn't "pay back" the military time because I knew that I paid SS dollars, then I retired on CSRS. So, the US government took my SS money years ago, reduced my CSRS pension when I turned 62, and also cut my SS checks by half due to CSRS. Legalized theft..
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57858
I was told that a person who has not paid a deposit for military time (a lot or little) will have their annuity recomputed at 62. That means loosing the military time, and any cost of living adjustments to your pension. Perhaps a lot of money for someone who retired early, perhaps 7 to 12 years of COLAs. Is that how they compute the new annuity?
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57851
Had same experience with the Catch-62 reduction. Over $600 monthly reduction since 1995. Multiple appeals denied, OPM not having info on others affected. Not being informed prior to June 1985 retirement. Have tried to find others affected through internet web-site unsuccessfully back in aboue 2002. Would be interested if there is still a viable recourse. Am aware of one official OPM response quoted that "they are just waiting for all of us to die off" Thank You Leo J Hogue
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57844
I'm trying to make informed choices about retirement early in my career and am not sure if my question is appropriate for this section. I've read many of your articles about military/civilian retirement and constantly wonder if I'm in/out of the Catch-62. I now work for the federal government (FERS) and am a recently retired reservist. I was told that as a retired reservist I am entitled to two distinct/separate retirement funds (one where I can elect to pay active duty time/earnings into the civilian retirement fund; and two receive my military retirement at age 60 without any caveats. If I elect not to combine/contribute (not waiver) my active duty time (14 years) with my civilian years of service, will I be subject to a reduced retirement from FERS once I turn 62? My second question is not necessarily in your area of expertise but you have a lot of knowledge on the topic. There's a page on the Social Security web-site that states "For every $300 in active duty basic pay, you are credited with an additional $100 in earnings up to a maximum of $1,200 a year" of additional dollars in their social security funds once they start drawing it. Is this amount based upon how much you receive from SS or your civilian retirement fund or truly a special supplement for those who served on active duty in the military?
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57843
After reading your article I am rejoicing in my decision to pay back the seven years of military service. Of course, as most young people do, I put it off for most of my government service. The interest accrued will make you dizzy. Now; to deal with the temporary time!
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57836
How does this work with someone that did not retire from the military. I have 8 years of service. when i retire at 57 I will have 30 plus years without the 8 years of military service. Do I have to buy the 8 years of military service.
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57832
My understanding of this issue is that it is even more complex than stated.
At age 62 I will NOT be qualified for social security (insifficient quarters). I initally took this to mean that it would be of no benefit to me to repay the military time. However, further reading indicated that I actually would qualify for social security payments under my wife's elegibility. Following this scenario, again my annuity would be reduced.
I am currently repaying the military time through payroll allotment.
Is my reading correct?
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57829
I truly feel bad for Mr. Westfall. One should not have to suffer in retirement because his Human Resource Office failed to provide him ALL the details. However, it is incumbent upon YOU to KNOW what your benefits are. About 7 years from retirement, my husband and I both signed up for and took Federal Retirement seminars. I am under CSRS and my husband is under FERS. We learned many, many things in these seminars. We then re-adjusted our plans and again 5 years out did the same thing again. Each time contractors give these classes, you learn more (all the little loop holes your HR office will fail to tell you). In addition, I purchased publications from, I think it was FedWeek.com which also gave plenty of info and examples. I guess bottom line here----you and you only are responsible to ensure you will be getting ALL your benefits. If you start far enough out, you can adjust and re-adjust along the way and have plenty of time to ensure you are not the victim of an "oh, I forgot to tell you about that" issue.
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57828
I have a question. I am not now qualified for Social Security benefits and will not retire before age 62. If I continue to work for SSA after age 62 and also do other work that qualifies me for Social Security benefits after age 62, will I still suffer the reduction since I was not eligible for Social Security benefits at age 62 (but after age 62)?
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57826
After 30 years of retiring people, post 56 still confuses employees like you would not believe. Did a seminar last week and we had people in the audience that 1. had never heard of post 56 2. Knew thay had to pay, but haven't paid yet after 20 years plus interest accrual. Employees need this drilled into their heads from the day they are hired.....
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57823
To: Tammy Flanagan-"Catch-62" should not be "Revisited" it should be eliminated and all veterans who served their country with honor and sacrifice who paid this "extortion" should be reimbursed. I remember sending my state representative a letter to this effect prior to my retirement...no response. This letter summarizes my experience. I would like to email you a copy if you can send me the appropriate address. It would be a great tribute to veterans if you used your column to advocate for repeal of this law.
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57822
I have been told this applies only if you are eligible for ss by the time you reach 62.If you are not eligible at 62 but become eligible for ss later there will be no csrs reduction if the deposit had been or not been made.I have been told this at legitimate retirement seminars.With only 14 ss credits and retirement at 56 i won't make the deposit because even if i work after retirement i can't reach 40 credits at 62.If this not correct please let me know. Thank You
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57819
I read the above article and it is quite informative. I have the following questions though:
a. Since Westfall retired with 20 years of service from the AF, why did he want to combine those years with Civil Service years?
b. I'm a FERS employee with 23 years of active service in the Army. In your article you stated that the rules are clear for employees falling under FERS for paying a deposit. b1: What is a "deposit"?
b2: Similar to Westfall, why would I be interested in combining both services?
Thanks,
Lorenzo
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57815
I retired from the AF as a SMSgt (E8) after 20. My SCD for civil service is 15 Jun 81 and I plan to retire from civil service in Jun 2009. I have not paid for having my military service credited towards my civil srvice retirement. Should I or should I not?
thanks,
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57814
Because there was a lack of knowledge, and I believe there still is, I had to pay two years worth of interest for my military buy back. I was hired when a majority of the people were in CSRS and very few FERS. No one could tell me if it was an advantage for me. Of course they knew how the CSRS military rules worked. Many assumed it was the same which they are not. If anything they are night and day. I feel we do not educate new employees well enough in their retirement benefit package. I was told I was "too young" or "you've got along time before your retire" to worry about this. So sad. I was not allowed to attend retirement briefings because I wasn't "within three years of retirement" I think we have done alittle better but I shouldn't have to buy a fedweek FERS retirement book to get my information.
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57808
When I left Active Duty (Army) in 1987, it was explained (incorrectly) to me that I could chose either to collect retirement from my eventual FERS service, or my military service, but not both. So I did not "buy back" my 15 years of military service. I later learned that the exclusion is for Active Duty retirement, not Reserve retirement. I have since "bought back" my 15 years of military service (although I had to pay interest since I did not buy it back in the first three years after leaving Active duty). I now will have 42 years of Federal service for my FERS retirement calculations, AND I will still receive my Army Reserve retirement for 28 years of service when I reach age 60. Check the regulations carefully, and don't take what the "personnel specialists" tell you as gospel.
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57807
The federal government has a history of creating benefits and spending time and tax dollars figuring out ways to take them back. My suggestion is to not try and figure out whethter or not you should pay a deposit. Just do it. It is the safe thing to do when planning your retirement. There is too much at stake otherwise.
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57800
Mr. Westfall should contact his congressman and try to get a special bill enacted
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