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Return to Article: Agencies urged to avoid generational stereotypes

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  I am 45 years old. I at the very end of the Baby Broomer era and at the beginning of the Gen-X era. When I was in the private sector, I had no problem moving from job to job, especialist when I was in the tech field. When I started working on the public side is when I started to get complacent, and hated it. Now I am back to days in the private sector. I like moving around because you can learn different things. I now look for positions that are term positions. A 35-year with a GS-14 really is not different from someone working the private making the same money. This is as long as they are QUALIFIED. I have in the government there are people getting promoting and are not close to being qualified.

  Broomer X Posted March 3, 2008 12:30 PM
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  I originally had nothing against interns, until I saw an intern (7/9/11)placed in charge of senior, capable employees (GS 12). In just two short years of govt experience, she is trying to run an accounting office and the work is suffering to say nothing of the morale. I can't blame the intern, I blame management. An intern program seems like a good idea, but not the way it is being administered in Cleveland.

  Over 40 and still capable Posted March 3, 2008 1:06 AM
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  This was an interesting article and good dicussion here in MB. I am an early forties fed, 19 years in, GS-14 for ten years - was a young comer at one time now I am just content, management is too hard a game nowadays and it is hard to keep the crew happy. I have found the influx of young talented people into my office to be rejuvenating and educational to a large degree - making me question my own capabilities and motivations every day. I do my best to try to help them out, show them things, etc....the same was done for me back in the day and I am ever grateful. The biggest problem I notice is loyalty - these folks are not as loyal to the office and, more importantly, each other as we were. Everything is kind of secretive to them so I have little hope of many of them transmitting what I show them to their fellows and subords one day. Some are also cut-throat and sneaky when they can get away with it and can be even bigger butt-kissers than we ever were. Even though they are more results-oriented, especially short-term, than some senior folks they do not take criticism well and will ignore you if you do it even once - there is no room for consensus much of the time. The ideas of working together and common cause are hard for these guys to swallow. At the end of the day little thought is given to the long term effectiveness of the org in serving America, it is more what can I get out of it now.

  Older Fed Posted March 2, 2008 8:35 AM
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  As a 35yo GS-14, I am used to hearing comments like, "you're lucky to be where you are," "you're too young for your grade," and "I should have your job." I have been hearing them ever since I became a supervisor. I was recently told by one of my own managers that the reason he assigned a colleage of mine -- whom I outrank -- as acting supervisor, was because he had more years in service (by virtue of age). It had nothing to do with qualifications.

  I don't think it is so much a generational stereotype so much as it is age discrimination. It would be more appropriate for EEO laws to be rectified so that they apply to EVERYONE in the workforce.

  Too Young Posted February 28, 2008 3:33 PM
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  Nobody in DHS - I am certainly not biased against older workers. I am an older worker and could have retired three years ago, but choose to work because I love to work. I am biased against all who want a free ride, young or old. My comment was not inclusive as there are some of us older workers that do our job, that are willing to teach the young people just coming onboard every thing we know because we take pride in our organization and our country and want them to be able to maintain the good reputation we have established and who are admired by real professionals for our job commitment, character and integrity.

  Carol. H. Edwards Posted February 28, 2008 3:18 PM
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  When I was hired in 6 years ago, i was very young (early 20's) and was hired with some individuals who were the same age as my parents. Yet, we have ALL picked up the slack and done what needs to be done. Also, those that have been here have been wonderful about sharing their expertise. Because at the end of the day, the more capable individuals you have, the easier it is on you. That's not to say that due to under-staffing we didn't have to teach ourselves using various agency tools. Not only that, but there were individuals in our agency who were taking the lazy way out and doing it wrong for so long that they were teaching all of the young staff wrong. So in the long run, sometimes you were better to look it up yourself rather than be taught wrong. (you just had to use discretion as to whose adivce you took) No one should have to spoon feed us. in fact, there was someone younger than me acting as a mentor because we just flat out didn't have the staff. (all of our experience was out sick or promoted) We are all much better at our jobs having to read and teach ourselves. This comment about not being taught and not given enough work...hello...it's called taking initiative and we all here do it. Some of us are excellent workers and as far as this Merit System goes, i don't care how long you have been in a job. Time does not necessarily equal ability or expreience. If you are lazy and/or have been riding on the coattails of others', then someone who is hardworking and younger should get the promotion over you. In the same regard, someone younger who is lazy and not performing who threatens to leave if they don't get that 13, should shut up and leave, the agency will be better off without your self-rightous attitude. I am all for whoever you are getting what's coming to you based on hard work, dedication, and great job performance, no matter what your age.

  Andie Posted February 28, 2008 3:15 PM
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  As an intern i run into that attitude pretty often. Here in the DoD where people are switching to NSPS i feel that that attitude will only get worse. Due to NSPS you guys will be competing with us for promotions, but also just to be able to provide for your family at the same level as the prior year.

  I do wish that this notion of Gen Y would just die off. The term Generation (ABC...XYZ) is already taken, and so we don't need another. I guess Millennial works, but if forced to choose i would say the Digital Generation works much better.

  Btw...i never got a trophy for seventh place, but maybe thats b/c i rarely finished less than 1st.

  Valek Posted February 28, 2008 12:56 PM
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  Our needs are simple. We don't know "government," what agencies do, what specialties you are looking for and what jobs are available. Tell us. Once we start, we want to be able to contribute according to our ability and to not be shoved in a corner because we are new or young.

  Melange Posted February 28, 2008 12:40 PM
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  Ordinarily, I wouldn't bother to comment on this prattle, but Carol's blatant bias against older workers bothers me. I am an old fed just about to retire, and I can do twice the work of most of the young people hired, and I am NOT afraid of losing my job to them--just promotions--which under Merit System principles should go to me because of my abilities and experience. I am skilled and efficient, bring a college degree, and plenty of varied work experience to my job--just some of the benefits of employing an older worker. So, please, let us not generalize about any feds. There are good and bad workers in all generations and in all workplaces. Individuals all have a different capacity for work. I just happen to read and type very fast which enables me to be very productive. But most importantly, not only do I have a good work ethic, I remember who my real employer is--the American taxpayer. I just happen to be assigned to DHS.

  A nobody in DHS Posted February 27, 2008 4:20 PM
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  I am one that is about to retire. My thirty years plus began quite well until I came in contact with several power hungry senior level managers with egos. They felt it was more important to ignore ethical standards and violate both personnel and organization regulations. This enable them to build there empire.That was the good old boy days.In region three of GSA it has become the good old girl days. You melennia generation have it made. Management today has nothing to do but hold a carrot out.You will do anything for that carrot as long as there is something in it for you, at no matter what the cost is. You expect to be a grade 13 within five years or you threaten to leave. If you were any good you would be working for the government

  len Posted February 27, 2008 3:05 PM
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  As a 58-year-old Baby Boomer, I'm a lot more concerned about how our middle and younger managers are stereotyping MY generation than I am sympathic for the Interns. Just read your fellow comments -- they all think I'm a doddering old fool who is sleeping my way toward retirement. NUTS to YOU! I've got a lot of good years in me still -- oh, and by the way, I am computer- and internet-literate, know what an MP3 is, and can text-message with the best of you -- so stop whining and pay attention. You just MIGHT learn something...

  Dorian Wixom Posted February 27, 2008 3:00 PM
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  I don't think generation Y is any different than other young generations from years past. I think its important to ask yourself how prepared was I really when I was 20 years old and starting out? As someone who started my federal career 5 years ago as an intern, I firmly believe that young workers should be given a chance. However, if an agency is going to start an intern program, it is important to put the resources into it. The interns at my agency are very well coached and trained over the 2 year rotational period and it makes a big difference. I really appreciate the people that put the time into helping the young individuals grow and become really good employees. And its good to have some one with the ability to find those that are going to have the right attitude and work ethic, like is mentioned in this article. I don't think we should discount the veteran employees either. Yes there are those that are probably over focused on retiring asap, but its important for young people like myself to realize those individuals have a lot to offer and to feed off of their knowledge.

  Former Intern Posted February 27, 2008 2:49 PM
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  Having been part of the federal workforce for over 20 years, I have seen a wonderful shift in the caliber and commitment of new entrants into federal service. The elimination of the hiring freezes of the 1980's and better new entry hiring programs have allowed agencies greater opportunity in hiring for the future. My experience has found that with budget and FTE cuts there is little room in the government for slackers of any age. Staffing is in such short supply in most agency that it behooves managers to be able to develop all of their employees to ensure they get the most out of them. Today's interns will be tomorrow's directors and leaders. It is in everyone's best interest that we ensure that we meet their development needs so that they can meet agency needs now and in the future. The biggest complaint that I hear from new feds is that they are not being challenged enough and that they are bored and under-utilized. The federal government is facing challenges never before seen and it will need a new type of federal employee to succeed in meeting these challeges. We are fortunate that they are sitting right next to us. Let's not pass up this opportunity to make government great.

  Formerly young federal employee Posted February 27, 2008 2:12 PM
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  Here are some observations on both generations. We, the current older generation aren't as stupid as the younger generation would like to believe -- who do you think brought computers into the workplace before you were born? What I have observed about many of the young employees ( and maybe government is not getting the best) is they cannot write a coherent sentence. They cannot present information in a inteligible manner (texting may be "cool" but is not the language of professional business). They want to be spoon fed rather than researching a problem thoroughly. I assign new employees training experiences and the product they come back with is not even to the same level of quality I would get from a similar new hire 10 years ago.

  bmj Posted February 27, 2008 12:49 PM
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  Currently, I am an "intern" who came into the federal government fresh out of college. Initially we were told that we were hired us as a means for the agency to behin planning for the future (after the surge of retirees are gone ). I will say that I too am appalled by the way we are treated by coworkers and management. I am certain there are many other interns in the federal government dealing with the same problems, so I was OVERCOME with a sense of relief in knowing that someone out there is paying attention to what really is going on here. I have noticed that employees do act as if we are coming to "steal" their jobs, so the amount of training or guidance we get from them IS IN FACT minimal (and these employeed are sometimes a supervisor or "mentor"); or we are not trained or given adequate amounts of work because our managers are "busy". We all felt that feeling of disregard the first day we all walked in the door at the federal government. Many of us have left the federal government because of the same reasons stated in the article. If federal agencies continue to ignore the significance of their interns and underhandedly try to diminish their value, what will the federal government be like in 10 years?

  *anonymous* Posted February 27, 2008 12:31 PM
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  The majority of the time, once you hear someone anywhere near retirement (might be 2 years out even) start talking about how much time they got left until they can retire, they have already mentally retired, and we all know that mental controls physical. So, there you go. Good thing we have got young workers coming on willing to pick up the slack, but this should certainly not be a requirement. Anyone accepting the pay should do the work. And, someone could stop these "free rides". No matter how close one is to retirement there are still disciplinary procedures in place for deadbeats. It just takes a brave sole and a real professional to execute.

  Carol. H. Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 12:01 PM
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  I am 30 years old and have worked for the federal government for 6 years. I have seen A LOT of hard-working young people that do the majority of the work so the "close to retirement age" group can count their time till retirement. We can also handle change very well. We get a bad rap sometimes, but from my experience, I have seen that young workers take pride in their work and are willing to lend a hand whenever they can. I have seen a lot of hatred towards interns, but it is mostly unjustified.

  YoungFedWorker Posted February 27, 2008 10:31 AM
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  Art, Better education and possession of greater work skills is a plus only if the person is willing to perform. Yes, this is an advantage to get one in the door, but work experience (and this can be volunteer work) and references will tell the story. Don't just take education and skills at face value and, also, add in a little common sense--you know there are some educated fools. Are they a bragger or a worker? It is important to zero in and make sure they can do what they say and anxious to get to it.

  Carol. H. Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 10:29 AM
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  This is so true. As a senior DoD leader, I have always been curious (appalled) by the all too prevalent 'Old School' management style. That is perpetuated by the managers who started and continued their careers in one department or even organization. They typically have a high school education and their knowledge of management and leadership is limited to incestuous OJT and urban legend. Often it was said out loud and overheard in the hallways, "I'm not teaching that new 'kid' anything. It will only result in him/her being promoted before me." Stories abound of interns being 'kept in the dark' rather than training and leveraging them to meet today's business and mission demands. Pigeon-holing a generation or generations of people into a generalized personality is ridiculously foolish. What is, in general true, the new wave of Govt employees is better educated and possesses greater work skills from the get-go than those leaving. It is refreshing to hear that there are managers who recognize the new wave of Govt employees as a powerful force to be recognized and leveraged.

  Art Posted February 27, 2008 8:13 AM
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  There are some really good workers out there. The importance of good work ethics should be a part of a child's upbringing as parents serve as a role model in this area. When you are at work you must be present (no personal phone calls or anything else non-work related except in emergencies), motivated, enthusiastic and attentive to detail. In some cases, in spite of the absence of role models good work habits are formed and a person goes on to excel based on personal morals, initiative and goals. Applicants who do not fit what is expected can be weeded out most of the time during the job interview and reference check processes, but the good ole boy system must be discarded and other mandates that prohibit using good judgment for fear of repercusions must be debated and changed if there is to ever be an effective, efficient and productive work force. The same fear is evidenced when a mistake in initial judgment is made and a worker does not pan out as anticipated, and because of built in protections don't intend to change. That is why it is paramount to make good, solid decisions at the outset, IF POSSIBLE UNDER EXISTING CONDITIONS AND REGULATORY MANDATES, for smooth sailing. Surely there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

  Carol. H. Edwards Posted February 27, 2008 8:11 AM
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  Take a good look at what Bush is doing to Govt workers and you will see that another name for the Generation Y person would be "B" scale wage employee.

  Retired Air Traffic Controller Posted February 26, 2008 5:36 PM