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Return to Article: New campaign introduces students to public service

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  I'm not talking about getting rich Patrick. I'm talking about making enough money to pay all of your bills, contribute about 5% of each check to retirement and have some money saved aside for unexpected financial emergencies. I don't consider being able to accomplish those objectives to be rich. Even if you start as a GS-7 and have $60,000 in student loans and are single with no savings, $39,000 isn't a lot of money to live in a city like D.C. if that's your sole source of support.

  I actually applied for the loan forgiveness program at my agency. While the amount helped and I'm grateful, the amount they awarded me barely makes a dent in my overall debt. The other thing is that my agency makes decisions on a year to year basis regarding who is going to get loan forgiveness money. My agency doesn't offer any program where you get a certain amount of debt forgiven if you work for the agency for x number of years.

  KH Posted February 20, 2008 2:33 PM
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  KH, I think there are federal agencies that offer student loan repayment programs. Not that that makes a GS-5 salary any more enticing. We are talking about college graduates, though.

  BB Posted February 14, 2008 11:25 AM
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  RL, I sincerely feel for your daughter's difficult time finding a job. The uncertainty can be frustrating, and I don't take your situation lightly. As a matter of fact, I am a recent college graduate who was picked up in an intern program. There were over 2,000 applicants. 52 were hired. I graduated Cum Laude from a state University. I did a lot of research before I applied for the program and tailored my resume according to the qualifications advertised. During college, I was heavily invested in community service, which may have helped.

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  KH, according to the CNN Article titled "Most Lucrative Degrees for 2007 Grads," Feb 2007, recent college graduates can expect to earn somewhere in a range between $30,502 for Political Science, English and Psychology majors, and $54,587 for Mechanical Engineers. A GS-5 in Washington D.C.-- where GovExec recently reported were offered the most Fed job opportunities-- makes $31,751, and a GS-7 makes $39,330, which both fall within the national averages. The bottom of the range, I agree, but if someone has applied for a Federal job with the hope of getting rich, that someone has applied at the wrong place.

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  I believe the crux of the initial issue addressed in the article we are commenting on, might be summed up in this passage: "participants said they needed to deal with negative perceptions of government by students and their parents. Those impressions sometimes are reinforced by the complexities of the federal hiring process, which hobbles students who have to make quick decisions about summer internships or full-time jobs." I, and several of my fellow interns, have been invited to college campuses to discuss employment opportunities in the Federal Government with college graduates. Rome may not have been built in a day, but I do believe the program is working, since I have personally persuaded as many as 15 graduates to apply for an internship program.

  Patrick Toler Posted February 14, 2008 11:17 AM
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  I will agree with RL. You didn't used to have as many retirees looking to start a second career with the feds. The whole concept of a second full time career after retirement is fairly new. Most of the selecting officials at my agency simply calculate the number of years of experience and hire the person whose number is the highest unless there is a really good reason not to.

  KH Posted February 12, 2008 7:31 PM
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  In response to Patrick Toler, my daughter has been searching GS-5/7 jobs (not GS-13) and has been seaching using the Applicant Eligibility "No" to see jobs open to all applicants. She carefully reads the qualifications for each position and applies only to those for which she qualifies. Despites her gradutaion with Summa Cum Laude honors, has not had a single interview with a government agency. I think that your comments were sincere and well intentioned, but you may be a little out of touch if you have not personally tried to apply for a federal entry level position as a graduating student. Regarding your comparion of the Federal Intern program to an intership at Goldman Sachs; besides that fact that there really isn't any realistic comparison between an intership at SSA or HUD and Goldman Sachs, the article we are commenting on did not mention that Goldman Sachs was having any trouble attracting recent graduates, but the federal govt supposedly is.

  RL Posted February 12, 2008 8:17 AM
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  If you're single and have over $50,000 in student loans, how are you gonna be able to afford to pay your student loans, rent and all other bills and eat on a GS-5 salary?

  KH Posted February 12, 2008 1:05 AM
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  Regarding comments by M. Phelps and RL: First, on USA Jobs under the heading "Applicant Eligibility" click "No" to see jobs open to all U.S. citizens. Second, a recent college graduate with no experience cannot expect to be hired on as a GS-13, just as a private industry firm would not hire that same graduate on as a senior analyst. Even college graduates have to start somewhere. However, there are opportunities at the GS-5 pay level for college graduates. If serious about Federal employment, reasearch the OPM website for qualification standards, paying particular attention to the section on BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR ALL GRADES. Obviously, there is a lot of misinformation going around about Federal employement opportunities, all of which can be easily remedied by doing a little research, just like an applicant serious about any job should do. Finally, career Federal Intern programs are extraordinarily competitive by design. To keep it in perspective, compare and contrast with an internship at Goldman Sachs.

  Patrick Toler Posted February 11, 2008 10:18 AM
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  Cliff, your job could just as easily be outsourced if you work in the private sector. I've known far more people who have been laid off in the private sector than the public sector. The ones who faced a RIF were given another federal jobs. Several of my colleagues at HUD came to the federal government because they faced a nasty lay off in the private sector.

  As a twenty something who is lucky enough to have gotten a federal job, I've noticed that the hiring process tends to favor older applicants. Almost invariably, the hiring managers select applicants with the greatest number of years of experience. Even with entry level jobs like the federal career intern program, my agency has chosen retired veterans from the private sector over recent graduates. Basically, you have two strikes against you if you're a recent college graduate without veterans prefence because you don't have as much experience as other candidates and you don't get the benefits of a hiring preference.

  KH Posted February 8, 2008 7:30 PM
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  Why would anyone, not just a recent college graduate, want to work in the Federal government if they have the knowledge that their job could be outsourced in the near future? Having that that A-76 cloud hanging over my head all the time would worry me!

  Cliff Antrobus Posted February 7, 2008 6:29 AM
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  In my position (volunteer manager at a VA medical center) I often mention the benefit that a volunteer position affords a student who may be considering a public service career. I have forwarded the article to my counterparts at the mentioned cities so that they may hook up with the schools involved.

  Robert Hawes Posted February 6, 2008 3:04 PM
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  I couldn't agree more with M Phelps. The problem is not with the young graduates wanting to serve in the governemnt. It is with the goverment hiring system and job qualifications. My daughter has been having a very similar experience. Job postings for GS 5/7 positions routinely require one of experience at the prior GS level. Adverised career intern positions will routinely receive 500 applications for each position. This clearly demonstrates that it isn't lack of interest on the part of the recent graduates.

  RL Posted February 6, 2008 1:27 PM
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  It will take more than marketing to make public service attractive to new grads. My daughter has been trying to get a civil service job since she got her BA in 2004. Every vacancy announcement contains some specific knowledge that you only learn by being in the job - so she never qualifies. Unless you are already "inside" to learn the unique software package, or specific transactions, you can't get in. These graduates don't want to start as GS-3s or 4s, but they don't have the specialized knowledge. The hiring requirements need to be more general to give newcomers a chance.

  M Phelps Posted February 5, 2008 5:11 PM