Return to Article: Union files Supreme Court appeal of NSPS lawsuit
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43368
What were the benefits for CSRS people to change over to FERS? The government predicted FERS was a better program! I did not change over. What are the benefits to go with NSPS?
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41463
Big Sky - yes the unions have done so much for us. Dental/Vision insurance? I was always free to pay the full cost of it on my own - big deal. We get no transit subsidy or child care subsidy in Southern Maryland. Our perks and benefits have eroded over time and promises made to the guys nearing retirment when they joined the government have been forgotten. They said they were not supposed to have to pay for Health insurance when they retired, they do now. Their military service was to be counted but now it isn't unless they pay for it. They now have to be under Medicare, instead of just the FEHB. Comp time for travel is a laugh, when or how do you think we are going to get the work done with the diminished work force. I know you guys don't care but there is a war going on and we do want to support the troops!
By the way, we really want to thank you guys for supporting the Clintons, what we need is another 50% cut in the workforce in DOD. Really loved it, the way it broke up our families and caused so many of our co workers to lose their jobs was wonderful. Keep up the good work. Don't even try to look into the background of the candidates to find an individual with a record at least "neutral" toward the Feds! Don't dare say the federal workers support the Clintons!
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41441
It always amuses me to read comments from naysayer's of the bargaining unit-union. Why? Because these same naysayer's are right there at work every day, happily reaping so many of the perks and benefits that have resulted from the union's taking the case and advocating for the federal workforce.
That's right, kiddies, just keep on enjoying all of those little benefits the union so strongly pushed, fought and/or vehemently supported: Flexible work schedules, telework initiatives, childcare assistance programs, transit subsidies, equitable contracting out competitions between public/private sector, flexible spending accounts, expanded dental-vision care, expansion of contributions & ability to modify contributions to the TSP, family friendly leave, locality pay, reasonable accommodation, employment for people with disabilities, whistleblower protection, workplace safety issues, annual pay raises, the right for federal employees to earn compensatory time for business travel outside normal work hours...the list goes on and on.
So please by all means, go ahead and continue to enjoy!!
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41432
I've worked in a few different fed agencies and your conception about the management favorites is absolutely not always true. Often it is those 'favorite' management pet employees who are the biggest nonperformers of all. Why? Because boss/friend allows them to skate and fob their workload onto other (non-pet) employees, who in turn become the 'dumpees' for these kiss-up skaters. In many an office, these pets are the very workers who are allowed by the boss to take 2 hour lunches, aren't charged for leave, come & go as they please, arrive late/leave early, chat on personal phone calls throughout the day, surf the web, etc. On the rare occasions when these boss chum slackers actually do some work, and make mistakes or screw up; the boss covers for these pets (often by trying to make someone else the fall guy), looks the other way or simply laughs it off. The boss gives these 'friend' employees credit for projects they've done little if any work on, and of course they always get the lions share of rewards, QSI's etc. None of which will change under NSPS. Except these management cronies will get even more under the new system. Because the boss is close buddies with these individuals (it is common that they also hang together as pals outside of work), the boss/employee professional relationship line has been crossed and the boss will always cover for them, reward them generously and allow these nonperforming boot lickers get over each and every time. Congrats to all of you who have made out so well in the early phases of NSPS. If you are one of those types described above, then it's no surprise. To all of the rest, I'd wait and see what happens w/ payouts in the coming years. It's no secret that DoD desperately craves 'buy-in' from the masses to their widely controversial NSPS agenda. DoD has dedicated much time, effort and many dollars to that end. Especially now in the early phases when it's such a hot potato issue. So, of course the marching orders on NSPS rollout were to make sure that the majority of employees - many who are ultra-skeptical- are 'convinced' that NSPS will be fair and generous. So don't be so dead certain on all of those ample payouts you receive now in being an ongoing reward to you. I sure wouldn't rush to bet the ranch on it. Prepare for the inevitable bait and switch that surely awaits as time under NSPS goes on.
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41416
I almost hurt myself laughing when I read the NSPS admonition that performance ratings would not reflect "forced distribution". If you say you smoked it, okay. If you say you didn't inhale... get real.
Tell me how cool a system is when your supervisor, who by any means is the most objective jusge of your performance, is overruled by those whose real energies are being spent pinching pennies and have none left to actually think objectively.
Prediction: Every DOD employee worth being compensated for their performance will be spending a great deal of time on USAJOBS finding an organization outside of DOD that might compensate them fairly for their work.
Just picture this... in a government hailed for its efficiencies (shhhh) DOD goes from a system where there are (GS-1 to 15, ten steps each) a possible 150 different salaries for employees, regardless how many there are (700,00 you say?)... to a system where there exists a possibility that there would be 700,000 unique salaries. Not a problem. Confused at a higher level? You bet. Pass the taters please
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41379
Here at Tinker AFB the managers first gave theirseleves big raises, then the remaining funds were given mostly to their golf buddies. The most unfair pay system ever!
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41378
It is said to see so many supervisors giving no training and writing reports on poor performance due to lack of training. It has become like the gestapo. No one is doing there job everyone is just watching each other.
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41355
MAX,
In reaponse to your #"3. NSPS requires supervisors to do their jobs and know what their employees are doing, not just fill out a form at the end of the year and have the employee sign it.", Bull. I have been a federal employee for 4 years now and since my very first "performance appraisal" that has been BS. I was always getting the same appraisal as the other "people" I started with and I quote "because it is a standard to give you your appraisal based on how long you have been here." and I believed him because I was just so happy to have a job helping my country and getting paid to do so. I do now see however, that I did not have to bust my hump my first couple of years here. Because I was told it was SOP to get a mediocre rating.... Now with this system comeing into effect (weather or not you like it) I feel bad for the soldiers and others that will soon become members of the DOD's civilian workforce. (For the first couple years) -
41353
Hey, why hasn't the Union gone on strike? I would urge the Unions to go on strike immediatly....
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41275
One little-discussed point in the NSPS contremps is the implications of DoD's changed approach to implementing new personnel systems since 1984. When instituting FERS, the Air Force honored its existing agreement with CSRS employees. While attempting to persuade as many as possible to transfer to FERS, the AF honored its existing contract with those who chose to remain under CSRS. In the current decade, DoD (and the AF) have unilaterally forced thousands of existing employees into NSPS. Judge Harry Edwards (US Court of Appeals for DC) asked, "Where is it in the entire history of our country under any collective bargining scheme ... that allows the employer to unilaterally abrogate an agreement?" (as quoted in GovExec's "Quote of the Week"). I would ask what strong and persistent attempts to do so say about the honesty and integrity of an employer - the Air Force's much-trumpeted "core value" of "integrity first" notwithstanding?
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41260
This is NOT PAY for PERFORMANCE! Some one needs to be held accountable for this decision. This is how well your supervisor writes your appraisal and what a pay pool agrees on. No one in the Pay Pool has a clue what the employee does. In fact they don't even know who they are. They base their decision on what the supervisor wrote and not the actual performance of the employee. It does effect your retirement. 8% increase? Where do you work?
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41248
The "streamlined" promotion regulations under NSPS are a potential source of abuse. I do not believe it is a coincidence that several vacancy announcements were withdrawn just before our agency converted to NSPS. Before NSPS at least there was "an appearance" of fair competition/grading of candidates. After conversion to NSPS, managers was able to hand-pick their favorites, many of whom could not have won a fair competition for their new positions.
I realize that private industry can promote whoever they want to, but the profit motive keeps private companies from promoting too many non-productive toadies. Unfortunately there is no such incentive in the public sector.
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41243
1st a comment to Gary in DC. Where do you work? All "Valued Performers" at my installation received 1 share valued at 1% and because the fear stricken paypool split it 50/50 between increase/bonus, it's NOTHING. But the PEO doesn't want that out. Then I was told that "we can no longer care about the 3s, we need to take care of 5s and some 4s. So if I'm a file clerk and have reached the end of all possible "innovations" how do I get anything other than a 3? NSPS is a rich get richer/poor get poorer plan. BTW, my health benefits increased by $50 PP; my payout doesn't even cover that since it's $10 PP. Even the so-called cost of living increase won't cover it. AND I took the plan with the LOWEST increase available. So Mr. Gary, understand that you are in the minority. Oh that's right, the minority rules this country, not the majority.
2nd a comment for KW: wait until you're 40 and of no apparent use. Thanks to the staffing options under NSPS, all employees in my office over 40 were "mgt-reassigned" out and replaced with people under 35 so how old are you? Is the age of Logan's Run coming?
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41209
The only individuals that should fear NSPS are those that aren't exactly stellar employees (and probably don't deserve a large pay raise anyway). Anyone that tries hard and does a good job will be fine. As a 20+ year government employee, I went into NSPS as a big doubter. After two consecutive years of much larger pay raises than I would have received under the GS system, I have been convinced. NSPS works and will continue to work provided supervisors are able to make meaningful distinctions between levels of performance and honestly assess employees that aren't pulling their weight. Sometimes it isn't "favoritism", but merely that the employee perceiving others are "favorites" has an overinflated and unrealistic assessment of their own performance. If they honestly looked at their level of performance versus their co-workers they probably got what they deserved. It isn't always the "good ole boy" network at work, but an employee finally getting an honest assessment of their performance.
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41153
Mark I don't remember being asked by the union to proceed. Did I miss the meeting?/
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41139
Those who make $200,000 will be getting our well and work deserved awards as we have been "told already" - even before implementation that we will "not get anything higher than a 3 and 1%" period.
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41120
1. Annual NSPS base pay increases mean employees who topped out in the GS system have a chance to increase their high three for retirement.
2. Raters have an opportunity to explain their ratings to the pay panel if the panel wants to change them. That means a chance to explain to the panel why the rating should stay as recommended. This is not a "good ole boy" system.
3. NSPS requires supervisors to do their jobs and know what their employees are doing, not just fill out a form at the end of the year and have the employee sign it.
4. The pay panel should not be so far removed from the employees whose ratings they are reviewing that they cannot honestly make decisions. Pay pools should only have a maximum of 120-150 employees.
5. The lions share of the work falls on the employees and supervisors to write assessments at the end of the cycle that are clearly related to the objectives they set at the beginning. That's where the problem is. The panel reads them, and if they only have one sentence, they don't have much to work with. -
41106
I keep hearing that managers are able to reward their favorite. Perhaps a managers favorites, and a real hard working individual are the same person. Many people I see that complain about favortism are the not so "favorite" employee's. What is wrong with working hard, promoting team work and getting along with your boss and fellow co-workers. If you do that how can that be considered favortism?
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41103
Gary in DC made me laugh. Which wasn't his original intention I'd bet. Yes, some are perpetually pessimistic. Some are more optimistic than reality might support. In the case of NSPS, I suspect that while this first year was good, it may not continue to be so as more and more "spirals" roll into the system. I fear that the pot of money will ultimately be smaller than promised and that most of the actual worker bees won't see such generous raises.
I started with Uncle in Sept. 1980. When that first raise came in October (that was before they screwed us out of 3 months to save some money), it was 9.3%. I thought, "WOW!" I thought it would always be like that. Not that that generous 9.3% was keeping up with general inflation, which was in the 15-17% ranges in the early '80s. But it was a Presidential election year. Since then, we've continued to fall behind the public. And our leaders have continued to ignore laws intended to help us keep up. So don't think that only the pessimistic don't believe everything. My general feeling is that if you believe without question everything that your management and TPTB in Washington feed you, you need to have your head examined.
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41099
I am astounded by the "young feds" thinking they are the only ones who work hard and who don't have to wait to get paid "what're they're worth" with NSPS. I currently have 32 years of Govt service and still have 5 more before I can retire. And I have "busted my behind" for every one of those last 32 years and will continue to do so until I leave. Where do you get the "appraisal for your worth". From your parents? Your College? Working for the Government has never been about obtaining huge salaries. It used to be about patriotism and doing something for your country and for some of us "old feds" it still is but then we aren't part of the "entitlement" generation.
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41096
Looks like all under NSPS here are Losers, some by $13,000.00.
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41078
Looks like the NSPS opponents and nay sayers were WRONG again. The facts are now clear with the release of the GS and NSPS payouts for 2007. An average employee who got 1 or 2 shares under the New NSPS system - equal to that of a 3 or 5 under the oldGS system made out BETTER than they would have if they stayed in GS pay scale. Not only did a share turn out to be about 2.5% of base pay increase (for our DOD agency) but 60% of that went to salary vs bonus - which all of it was a bonus under the antiquated GS system. In fact my personal salary increased just over $5k without the COLA added. This was on top of the MINI-Step increase you receive when you go into NSPS. So don't tell me I'm losing out cause I don't get the auto-step increase every few years. Bottom line all my employees made out better when I compare them against the just released GS pay scales. So don't fear the unknown. Even the most ardent opoonent in our office just admitted this year was "better than I ever thought", but added "it probably won't be that way next year." There's just no convincing some people.
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41077
NSPS was originally touted by Rumsfeld and his minions, as a tool to hire and keep, "the best and brightest" as the cliche says. In reality, it is a scheme to take away long and hard fought civil and union guaranted rights of employee's. It is also designed to reduce retirement payouts as the evidence shows, that a great deal of the "raises" are in the form of bonuses. A bonus is not a raise. NSPS also returns the federal work force to the 19th century, where managers can reward favorites, conduct subjective evaluations and abuse the system and employee's.
History has shown that "pay banding", which started experimentally in the 1970s, does not work and has been abandoned by all civil and private sector entities that tried to use this warped, innacurate,unfair and catch all system to administer salaries. Lastly, NSPS is a political tool, to channel funds away from the employee's and to sweetheart contracts and friends of the current administration.
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41064
If Dan Ketter is a union member he has a right to question how the dues are spent. If not, he has not earned the right for such critism.
AFGE and the other unions have fought NSPS and it's basis build on lies and management incompentiencies. The want a be's who think that they are being held back due to the system are proof that DOD's practice of conveying a lie enough times will ensure that at least some will soon believe it.
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41052
NSPS provides a number of subtle and some not so subtle ways to depress employee pay. Obvious is giving part of the increse in bonuses that would have been a base pay increase. Not so obvious is giving assignments where excelling is possible to buddies and pals.
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41049
I wonder if any of those legal eagles from the union have thought of this (you have a mentally limited federal employee (Mentally Handicapped), lets say was at a formally GS-04 level) these are usually special appointments, the employee is then converted to NSPS pay banding, now everything changes. Instead of working at an acceptable level for the appointment and the grade they were on, they are now in competition with other employees not limited by a mental condition in the same pay band. 1st how can this employee compete with their counterparts fairly? (They cannot!), 2nd how is it fair to the other employees that are in the same pay band? (It is NOT!) How do you justify rating the employees fairly? The "old GS" system had proven itself in this area; NSPS cannot and will not work for this situation, and many more. I understand and respect "Pay for Performance" I use it in my private business. And it works when everyone can "Fully understand" how and why "it works." It has escapes me that when I asked one of the implementing (GS-14-15 level) HR professionals this same question two plus years ago I got the "Deer in the headlights look" and was told "We didn't think about that" And guess what they still haven't! There are so-many ways that this system could be legally ripped to pieces in a legal challenge that if someone engages their brain before they file. It would be thrown out! Pay for perfomance works for people without Handicaps, or disabilities it discriminates against those that have them! And that my friend violates the americans with disabilities act!
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41042
The initial intent of NSPS was to create "one" pay system for federal employees. It was suppose to fall under the same purview of "pay for performance". However, DOD now has four pay systems. We have the WG type of employees, the GS type of employees, those (Navy Labs) under DEMO and lastly the "new improved" NSPS. NSPS has already abused the tax payers of America. There was a very simple solution to the original pay system. Just enforce it and get rid of the dead weight employees. We only needed a simpler system to eliminate a lot of unncessary paperwork in the firing process. You either perform, or find another job. Yes, you note of veteran's is correct. The Navy is hiring our military back into the same positions they retired out of. This use to be considered a Conflict of Interest. We're cutting the civilian workforce and replacing them with vet preference applicants. Most which have just recently retired from the military and will more than likely end up with three retirements (Military, Federal (401K) and Social Security)). Note: Military don't pay into their first retirement. They pay into Social Security. They also haven't been very active players of the Federal 401K Plan. They only need qualify and they get the job. Prospective employees lie on their applications and no one takes the time to check them out. We use to have panels that rated applications and if anyone noted conflicts, the hiring official was notified. This "is not" progress people. Our country is going backwards....wake up and smell the garbage.
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41041
All those complaining about NSPS and looking for its benefits don't need to look farther than me. I busted my rear-end, made a difference, and received an 8% raise during a year i wouldn't have been eligible for a step increase. If the hangers on in the bargaining unit had been included in the pay pool, my raise would have been larger because the slackers would have only received 1/2 of the COLA increase and the rest would've been distrbuted to people who actually perform. I've seen no good ol boy influence here, and those who worked hard were rewarded. The folks who use the federal gov't as a social welfare system didn't fare so well. Those of you who are scared of NSPS well...you're probably right to be scared because non-performing employees no longer get a free ride. I love the system as I would wager all hard chargers do.
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41039
Keep in mind AFGE can withdraw the case from consideration if Congress and President Bush work out the differences in the Defense Bill. My guess is AFGE filed the case to maintain the January 7th deadline. The article infers that this is what AFGE did because the bill was not signed.
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41037
KW - I would say a young fed would benefit from NSPS, but how do you benefit when you are an "Old Fed". Keep in mind that the average DOD Fed is 47 years old. At that age, they are more interested in looking at their high three with respect to retirement. You may move up quickly. When you reach the top of your pay band, you are done unless you can get a promotion. You will see the impact as you get older on your retirement with NSPS. Those control points are there for a reason.
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41034
I love NSPS! I am a young Fed and now I don't have to wait to be paid what I am worth. For my first four years I watch the many folks who have retired at the desks happily collecting their "steps" and full pay increases for doing very little work. Now, I am being rewarded for working by rear end off and there is the chance that they may not get their fat increases! AFGE, stay out of it, none of the bargaining unit folks are being moved into NSPS, so leave us alone!! Focus on your own issues.
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41024
I wonder why no one has noticed that NSPS is simply the way federal employment will revert back to what USPS used to be: the employment graveyard for military veterans.
I've always felt that NSPS is being used to push out federal civilians, productive or not, and replace them w/returning Iraqi veterans. Many of those are young, have serious and/or unrecoverable injuries and therefore are grateful for any job and pay they can get--hence P4P.
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41023
Nobody can ever tell AFGE anything-- all their coalition partners refused to join them in fear that a negative ruling would eliminate collective bargaining in the federal sector but no-- even when Congress comes forward to save collective bargaining at DoD and the Court of Appeals ruling sunsets in 2009, AFGE goes forward anyway on a risky Supreme Court case.
I personally think NSPS is a disaster and it will collapse on itself but to quicken the demise, AFGE is risking collective bargaining for federal employees-- this Court is not all that friendly to employees.
I've always said over the years that AFGE's worst enemy is itself- here is the proof. But go tell that to John Gage and his leadership at AFGE. I always cringe when dealing with AFGE representatives, especially the sober ones.
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41021
I am a victim of the NSPS system. Six months ago I was promoted from a GS postion into a NSPS position with a measly 5% pay raise. I didn't have to take it but somebody else would've. I'm staying for one year to gain experience then I'm looking to move on out of NSPS! The system is too subjective and hurts us financially. Civialin companies pay more.
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41020
The person that initiated NSPS is no longer the Secretary of Defense. The goal of NSPS, I agree, looks good on paper, but lends itself to the "Good-Ole-Boy" system and does not directly reward those that work hard day-in and day-out to support our military. It seems to me that some simple changes in the General Schedule system could work. It is time to recind this change. By the way, I do NOT support the conversion NSPS from GS. There is no benefit to strive for promotion since most jobs promotions/lateral moves provide only a five percent increase from current salary and involves twenty to fifty percent more work and responsibility. Our (America's)best experience and knowledge is transitioning to corporate America where they can make a living and be competitive.
Where is Rumsfeld these days? Not in NSPS, that's for sure...
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41018
I came from an agency (DOD) that was told that 1/2 of their COST OF LIVING pay increase would be taken away and put into the pay-pool. Then, they were also told that there wasn't enough money for ANYONE to get the top-rating, so in effect, everyone lost part of the COST OF LIVING pay raise. Yeah, NSPS is great... NOT!
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41012
why would the SC agree to hear the case? what a waste of union dues
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41008
NSPS fosters mediocrity. There is no incentive to be more than a valued performer - it's the new top block. People only have to do their job and they will be rewarded. Look out directors - it seems the pay pool panel knows your job and what your employees accomplish better than you.
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41003
The three comments posted thus far are apparently from employees who are focused only on the pay for performance aspect of NSPS, which also has multiple other recruiting, hiring and job classification components to it.
Also, it would appear that these comment posters assess their own performance habit such that they have reason to be apprehensive. Hard workers and superior performwers actually look forward to doing away with the "same raise" mentality and their opportunity to get more than those who are just towing the line to get by.
Most private sector employers have had pay for performance systems in place for quite some time now. Everybody knows that if your raise depends on your performance, that is the motivator for consistent good work. Also, managers know that if they are unfair at salary increase time, good employees will leave, which they do not want.
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41001
You may want to take a closer look at NSPS. This has nothing to do with pay for performance and everything to do with another way of reducing spending on the backs of the gov. No COLA, no increase in base pay, degradation of your high 3. You may be at it now. What happened to the poor performers getting nadda? Now you can be rated as a 2 and get 60% (2008 executive order, look for it to become permanent). Looks like a big waste of money spent on a big wasteful system. Yeah, you may get your bonuses, but that ain't gonna help you when you retire. Signing off at the end of the year after 33. Taking my CSRS and my high 3 and going home.
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40996
Clearly, Federal employees will be taking a step backwards in this new NSPS system as well as losing pay over the lenth of thier careers when compared to current GS system.
The NSPS system pits directors against directors and the employees that have weak advocates for performance based raises will lose big. NSPS is way to subjective and fosters a "Good-ol-boy" mentality.
Look out!
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40994
I want to thank AFGE we need to do away with NSPS altogether. I am still looking for someone to show me and all Gov. employees who and what benifits NSPS offers anyone?
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40993
Again the defense department is pushing a burdensome personnel program that no one wants and doesn't do anything the isn't already covered under the GS program except take away more employee rights. While NSPS looks good on paper, the application in the field has been less than appealing. Isn't it funny that when the defense dept is needing top quality personnel they install a program that is driving them away from federal service and into the private sector.
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40983
This is a real laugher. Gimme a break...they have ZERO chance.
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40971
AFGE has risked alot on the back of good employees for the sake of the few low performing employees. AFGE is demonstrating it lacks the understanding of the original law that actually reinstated standard collective bagaining in 2009. They fail to realize the current systems have failed and continue to practice to allow longevity raisie for low performing personnel. Though I oppose the current rules in NSPS regarding collective bargaining I actually hope the court rules against AFGE.
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40967
CIA analysts moved to DOD. Do they have the same union or are they part of the move to unionize DOD employees?
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