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Return to Article: Credentials could ease hiring for IT security jobs

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  Jenna - You may want to reiterate your protest. The requirement applies to IT professionals who have security as a primary or secondary responsibility.

  Its difficult to imagine that many IT professionals would not fit this description.

  US Posted October 30, 2007 12:17 PM
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  Oops! I thought the article was about forcing certification on _all_ IT workers in the federal gov't -- not just IT _security_ workers! .... sigh .... disregard my previous post in that case .....

  jenna Posted October 29, 2007 1:19 PM
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  Not to bemoan the fact that if credentialing were instituted when I was hired, I wouldn't have gotten the job (having a B.Sci in Geology, worked in oceanography, with previous federal experience as an admin assistant and no formal training in CS). I work with biologists these days, mainly creating graphic interfaces for research modeling applications. We use VB6 here, as well as C++, Fortran, and R with a smattering of HTML and javascript. I regularly use my scientific background to help the scientists find ways to implement their models and an interest in design and usabilty (I am a wannabe artist to boot) to inform how I design the user interfaces. I would shudder to think of the types of folks that my work group would hire if we could only pick from "credentialed" computer programmers. Technical competence cannot substitute for inventiveness, creativity, collaborative problem solving, and a well-rounded multi-disciplinary background.

  jenna Posted October 29, 2007 1:12 PM
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  While those credentials mentioned by other posters have experienced problems...the credentials this article is focusing on are more than likely, CISSP, CISA, and CISM. These certs tend to hold a higher standard, including in-field experience, continuing focused education, and a very-difficult exam requirement. Last stat I heard was an 80% failure rate on the CISSP exam. Even with a sterling record for rigor, any certification or degree should only be considered a piece of the puzzle, when considering applicants for critical positions. The real problem occurs when HR and Management selecting officials begin looking for shortcuts. Also, beware of the outsourcing of the selection process - talk about shortcuts.

  Don Posted October 29, 2007 9:23 AM
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  The idea that a college degree should bear more weight over professional credentials (or hands-on job learning experience) is ludicrous. I rec'd my college degree in 'Computer Science' back in 1992. Everyone knows how rapidly technology changes. There's is virtually nothing I learned in obtaining my degree in 1992 that applies to today's world of information technology. Everything in the field has totally changed. I keep my technical knowledge current through on the job experiences, training in new and emerging technologies, and by taking professional credentialing courses. The material I learned in computer technologies while in college is akin to using Stone Age tools in an Industrial Age.

  Mary Kaye Posted October 29, 2007 8:54 AM
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  Naturally an organization dedicated to making money by providing credentials, SANS, Microsoft etc.. would be pushing for this to become a standard. Got involved with some of them at my own expense but soon realized that certificates were not a substitute for real world experience. I would rather hire someone with twenty years experience over anyone with certifications and limited experience.

  Dennis Daily Posted October 27, 2007 11:09 PM
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  "A Technical Certificate should not be valued above a College Degree in the field. I've worked with many MCSE, CNE and CCNEs that could not problem solve beyond what was taught in the courses."

  I have hired many with a College Degree in their field who suffer from the same problem.

  You have to look at the individual, experience and aptitude. In many cases I have found that those who pursued certification are often better performers and deliver higher quality results. This is not in all situations but I would certainly never discount someone with the qualifications who was lacking a formal Degree. The value is in the individual.

  Juan Posted October 26, 2007 11:14 PM
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  A Technical Certificate should not be valued above a College Degree in the field. I've worked with many MCSE, CNE and CCNEs that could not problem solve beyond what was taught in the courses.

  Brian Waller Posted October 26, 2007 11:30 AM
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  My problem with certifications is the "paper MCSE" problem; you want someone with the skills. Certification may just be a piece of a paper guaranteeing test-taking skills, ideally you'll have a person who knows what they're doing but is flexible to deal with problems. Unfortunately, HR likes using certifications because it limits the time they spend ---- 'don't have MCSE, not qualified, next candidate'.

  R.W. Posted October 26, 2007 9:37 AM