Return to Article: Salary council finds widening pay gap
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40034
If people are paid based on where they live how is home of record determined? "The council also recommended that locality pay raises be distributed next year so that employees living in areas with the largest pay gaps receive the largest increases."The council also recommended that locality pay raises be distributed next year so that employees living in areas with the largest pay gaps receive the largest increases. That strategy would be in line with President Bush's decision last year to change the locality pay formula so that it takes into consideration the increasing difference between private and public sector pay in some cities, such as New York, compared to others. Does this mean that it realy matters where you work not where you live?
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38214
Wow! I am amazed, confused, and distraught over the number of apparently disgruntled government employees that have posted comments. (see Barbra Posted October 19, 2007). Unfortunately, I work with several disgruntled employees-just like these, and I have found from listening to them complain over the last 7 years, that most of their issues stem from worrying about the "other person" instead of doing their job. "Can you believe he got this...she got that". Just think, if they turned all that negative energy (that they have unnecessarily expended), into positive energy and applied it toward doing their best and being thankful that they have a secure good paying government job - everyone would want to work for the government regardless of the pay!.
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36126
too much, too little; Everyone complains about pay especially in regards to the so-called "cost of living" which is actually a locality pay and it is not based on "cost of living", but cost of labor in that particular market, so if people in your market are willing to work for less than you and all Federal employees will feel that in your raises or lack thereof. The retirees actually get a cost of living increase, but that is a totally different issue of which I am not ready to debate. Most people I know in Federal service as civilians are willing to take the "less pay for more security" trade-off to keep from job hunting every 3-5 years when a company decides it no longer needs your services, yet the CEO walks with a multi million dollar bonus after everyone else working is in the unemployment line.
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36053
With the high taxes, homeowners insurance and housing market in south Florida I find it difficult to understand how Miami gets such a small increase. Recruiting and retention is difficult for all fed agencies and cost of living is the #1 answer when experienced employees transfer elsewhere.
The method that calculates the cost of living needs to be reviewed itself, it appears outdated and does not take into account all local costs associated with employee expense. If this keeps up all feds will work somewhere in Iowa.
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35403
I agree with the RUS concept. I live in Va Beach where the cost of living is growing higher and higher. We get a small COL raise and my pay as a gov't worker really is a gross insult to what can be found in the private sector. I consistently see the upper grades getting bigger and bigger pay scales than the lower graded personnel who are college educated and they only bark orders. What people fail to see is that the 'little people' are the actual worker bees but get paid very little nor do we get awards because the gross amounts of monies go to the white collar management who really dont deserve it. Hence comes the buddy system there. The federal government system is totally corrupt and eveyone knows it, complains about but never calls the proper people to fix it. Our pay system follows suite there also. We claim benefits are good, maybe some are, but most have been reduced or taken away. Frankly, it is getting to the point where I want to go private sector. People do see gov't workers as lazy but I hate to say that we are not lazy we are way over worked and sickly disgustingly grossly underpaid. When positions are 'extinguished' they are not replaced leaving the next coworker to pick up the mess the leaving person leaves. and lets not even go towards the shortimer diseases these people grow from disgust of having had to face so much discrimination and aggravation and BS from snot nosed college students hired on with no experience over a 20-30-40 or more year experienced person who has become a supervisor over the people who have worked sweated and lived their jobs...the govt is crooked beginning at the top in washington dc. people who already have money DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE AVERAGE WORKING MAN AND LETS NOT EVEN SAY WOMAN!! IT is very disgusting to say america is the place because it is no longer. we may have the power but if we dont stand behind it, which the govt doesnt, then we are no body. our money goes over seas when we have people here who are in dyer need of help but noooooooo, the govt sends it overseas... please america is no longer what it is cracked up to be...it can be worse yes, but guess what...that too will come in time if we dont get out and tell our govt WE are the people!!!
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34883
Overpaid is a matter of perception. Not all government employees are GS-13s. If they're doing secretarial work then that is a management/leadership issue. Sounds as if that's a job that should be reclassified, if they're doing secretarial work. Senior level military personnel enjoy job security, lavish benefits and salaries comparable to those GS-13s and in addition, receive BAH. If a GS-13 has to pay all of his/her expenses from their salary, but that senior level military person gets BAH(a housing allowance basically), is he/she not being overpaid too? Just a thought. In my opinion, anyone earning 10,000 a month in salary should be able to pay for their own housing. Why do federal workers(civilian) always get ragged on, but not the military, who comparably earn substantially more when you add in benefits?
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34876
The problem with this kind of issue is that everyone follows the stereotype of GOV Workers. All these great benefits have been reduced to less than attractive benefits compared to private sector jobs. Just a few examples are that I pay over 3 times as much for the same health plan that I had 6 years ago and the copays and rx's have also continually gone up. I no longer have dental coverage through a government plan. Job security is a thing of the past as I watch more and more contractors doing the jobs that I used to do and now management requiring contractors to do certain jobs that used to be inherently governmental.
Yes there is the vacation and TSP and they are still very generous but when will they be depleted to less than private sector jobs.
People look at government workers as overpaid, spoiled brats but they haven't taken the time to see what has happened to federal service over the past decade. Until we educate the American Public that our leaders are selling the safety and security of this country to the lowest bidder they will continue to dilute the pay and benefits of civil service jobs.
As for those who think that we don't have the right to complain they need to take a long hard look at themselves before they start throwing stones. They are a lot of us that are here because we are proud to be serving our country and because we care about what we do, that doesn't mean that you sit back a watch while the thing that you love so much gets corrupted and mismanaged.
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34866
Reviewing the RUS area listing is a must as there are many areas listed in RUS that should be categorized to larger city rates as many U.S. states have seen large growth in the recent past. There is also a gross difference in the Federal Wage System compared to the private sector. If you want experienced staff to enter Federal Jobs the pay better be more enticing for them to consider working here. Yes we can get people to work here and plenty of people do, but what skill and experience do they have?
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34854
John said:The 23 percent figure is meaningless. There is so much title inflation in the public sector, you can find GS-13s making 90K a year doing secretarial work. Plus, government employees have absolute job security and lavish benefits. When one figures all of that in federal employees are way OVERPAID.
Overpaid is a matter of perception. Not all government employees are GS-13s. If they're doing secretarial work then that is a management/leadership issue. Sounds as if that's a job that should be reclassified, if they're doing secretarial work. Many senior level military personnel job security, lavish benefits and salaries comparable to those GS-13s and in addition receive BAH. If a GS-13 has to pay all of his/her expenses from their salary, but that senior level military person gets BAH(a housing allowance basically), is he/she not being overpaid too? Just a thought. In my opinion, anyone earning 10,000 a month in salary should be able to pay for their own housing. Why do federal workers(civilian) always get ragged on, but not the military, who comparably substantially more when you add in benefits?
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34845
I would like to know if they are considering the effects that the BRAC is having on local areas. I live in an area (Fort Bragg) where the anticipation of an influx in population, due to the BRAC, has caused the cost of living to skyrocket. The median cost of purchasing a home in my area has recectly tripled and is continuing to increase. I think our locality pay should take these BRAC related issues into consideration.
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34739
The 23 percent figure is meaningless. There is so much title inflation in the public sector, you can find GS-13s making 90K a year doing secretarial work. Plus, government employees have absolute job security and lavish benefits. When one figures all of that in federal employees are way OVERPAID.
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34688
Can somebody please check into taking Tucson, AZ off of the "Rest of the US" locality pay? The cost of living in Tucson, AZ almost matches Phoenix yet Tucson has a $-5000 difference in locality pay. Our counterparts easily make 23% more than the government employees.
Thanks
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34669
So what effect will this have on government employees in NSPS? Based upon the willy-nilly decision of Sec of Defense Gate to make changes to pay at the last moment, who cares?
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34647
Well if what they say is right then we need at least a 3.5% across the board, and THEN an additional amount added to localities.
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34640
I've recently visited San Francisco...I don't know how they afford it? Try to live in NY or NJ! Actually taxes are cheaper in NY. The New York suburbs...NJ, now has a 7% sales tax, huge property taxes, and homes that average $450,000 to $500,000. Most people in our Agency work in NYC because they are from the area. Poor people who are told they are "assigned" to the "Big and Expensive Apple." Something needs to be done concerning certain designated "expensive" areas. The best kept secret...Houston, Texas (housing average $140,000/no State Tax)
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34630
My area does compete for outside work, but our salary has not been raised. We make on the average $ 10,000 less a year than the private sector doing the same job. The only benefit we have is stability.
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34589
Taxpayer wrote: "Compete for commercial work. Prove worth and productivity and bid for that work with the higher salaries that NTEU suggests are warranted on a case by case basis."
Love the idea! 1st year law firm associates make 165,000 plus bonuses. Does that mean law clerks straight out of law are going to get the same salaries as (or more than) the U.S. District Court judges they clerk for? Woo hoo!
And if NYC should get its own area, how about DC REALLY being DC and not including parts of WV, PA, and everything else within 150 miles of Washington (which severely decreases the DC regional adjustment)?
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34582
As program managers for foreign military sales, we compete with direct commercial sales from the private sector. If we can't satisfy our allies by negotiating lower prices with vendors or providing expert service, we become redundant and lose funding. USG contractors and our commercial competitors earn roughly 50% more than civil servants for the same work. I and most of the younger workforce worth retaining are using civil service to gain experience and bide our time for the opportunity to cross over to the higher paying non-government agencies. That would leave behind those who either wouldn't be competitive in the private sector or decided to stay for intangible reasons. If you really want to get more for your tax dollar, the USG should pay enough to attract a high speed workforce. By accepting job security as enough compensation you are attracting/encouraging building a workforce of those that fear losing a job--a workforce that wants an employer who can't fire them easily. I work with several of these workers--ones we can't rely on but have to tolerate because it's too hard to fire them. Federal service needs to pay competitively to recruit a desirable workforce away from private industry. I'll trade job security for higher pay.
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34574
The entitlement mentality is phenomenally selfish. If you're not happy with your benefits--leave! Go join private industry and you won't automatically get an annual pay raise to offset inflation. You'll find that pay raises are merit based and you have to perform 100% of the workday everyday. Having seen both sides, I find the majority of the federal workforce to be suspicious, uninspired, and unproductive. It's easier to complain than to actually make an effort to change your work situation.
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34538
Now that they know about the problem, are they planning to correct it? The GS 6 and below employees are having a hard time making ends meet with the price of gas and groceries steadily going up. Someone needs to look at a mandatory upgrade for the lower paid employees. Their own diligence doesn't seem to pay off.
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34499
This "news" is just consistent with every other legitimate study of Federal salaries. I've bene a Fed 20 years and have turned down several considerably more lucrative private sector offers. There are intangible benefits to federal employment (I am committed to my agency mission), but intangibles will not consistently attract bright new-comers at a time when agencies must aggressively recruit. The time for proper and fair compensation for those keeping America safe and livable is now. The "job security" benefit is almost gone due to the ridiculously wasteful A-76 process.
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34483
An interesting debate with an equally simple solution. Compete for commercial work. Prove worth and productivity and bid for that work with the higher salaries that NTEU suggests are warranted on a case by case basis. Problem solved.
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34447
Why all the fluctuations in our wages, benefits, etc.? If the wages of our U.S. Senators and Representatives were tied to those of Federal Civil Servants, we wouldn't have this problem.
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34443
Mr Federal...ever hear of the concept equal pay for equal work? I'm not aware of any "tradeoff", implied or otherwise. People do not come to the government for job security and better work/life management. They come here to get a year of experience under their belt, then leave for higher-paying jobs in the private sector or with the states. If they were coming here for the reasons you state, they wouldn't leave.
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34442
Instead of you non-feds and feds bashing each other, open your eyes. If it happens to the Federal Sector employees, it is only a matter of time before it happens to the private sector. If NSPS, low pay raises, eroding benefits happen to the fed employee, the private sector management will do the same to you (and they already have). The mutual admiration society (management and CEO's) is alive and well for all employees. Who is getting the lion's share of bonuses and perks? Instead of fighting and bickering with each other, we need to show solidarity!
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34437
Please heed the comments in the article made by NTEU National President Colleen Kelley regarding the ongoing efforts of NTEU to seek larger annual salary adjustments to try to close this gap. NTEU is also seeking an increase in the Federal Government's portion of Federal Employee Health Benefit costs.
How many of you are members of your Union and thus are actively supporting these efforts? There are far too many employees who are unwilling to be part of the solution.
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34429
Mainer is Ignorant and Insulting
Nearly 25% of the federal workforce have Veteran's preference and therefore are former military -- (those who are former military, yet have no preference, make the percentage of former military percentage in the fed workforce even higher) (site: demographic study completed Sep06 by OPM) You insult United States of America Veterans to say they are "unable to produce".
Also the percentage of population in US having a Bachelors degree or higher is 29.3% (site: US Census Bureau)
The Federal Workforce -- 43.1%
Take your blinders OFF
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34427
And this situation is to be made better by...
1. Putting our future pay and retirement increases on an annual voting basis by Congress?
2. Limiting the already limited funds and gains to an extremely low percentage of the population, primarly dominated by upper management?
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34423
Talk to the vast majority of lower GS grade retirees with incomes based upon dated and unrealistic calculations.
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34421
If this is future vision of things to come, then employees would be well-counseled from the outset of their careers to invest a good percentage of their take home pay in a retirement savings plan that is separate from what the government has to offer. Failing to apply cost of living increases to base pay would eventually make retirement under FERS a pointless exercise.
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34414
People do not accept positions in the federal government because of compensation. They move to the federal government to have job security and better work/life management. It is a trade off, which is understood by those who move there. Because of this, the positions should not be compensated at the same rate as the private sector.
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34408
And a great number of Fed employees probably put in 27% fewer hours. FED benefits are generally better than private sector for mid range employees.
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34405
I'm not why the Scranton/Wilkes Barre, PA area is considered in with "the rest of the US" but someone needs to relook this because the cost of living is equal to other counties in PA that receive a higher locality pay!!!
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34402
What bunk. Every so often some group comes up with a small study such as this. Trash. More than likely, the feds underpay in urban areas for non professional jobs. But in the majority of states, federal jobs (except for med and legal pros) pay damned good and much higher than the private sector.
stop whining already. Many jobs in the private sector don't have near the perks of fed jobs. You are well paid and just about have to commit murder to get canned. I live in an "at will" state, which means I can walk into work tomorrow and be fired for no reason. FED WORKERS HAVE SECURITY.
Having worked fed on term appointments and contracts, my observations have been that frankly, most of you wouldn't survive in the private sector because you have to produce. The bureaucracy grinds on, taking forever to complete tasks or make decisions.
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34391
Dave, thank you...go back to sleep...can someone say, "case of sour grapes?" You can bet that if Dave was still a fed, that he would be on this bandwagon along with us. NSPS has eroded DoDer's High 3 retirement potential. What's next?
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34386
Breaking News! Federal Salary Council announces the obvious! Later, they are expected to make an announcement on the color of George Washington's white horse! Please.... Who didn't know this?
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34384
My feeling is that when ALL benefits are considered, federal workers are, at least for the most part, on a par, if not ahead of, private sector jobs. I say this as a former federal employee.
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