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Return to Article: Religious groups join fight against national IDs

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  But we are in a war in the Middle East, (Rev. 9:14) and it is over weapons of mass destruction. (Rev 9:1) It did begin with the Gulf War, which did begin with a lot of smoke. (Rev 9:2) Our helicopters did torture men for five months with EMR weapons, (Rev 9:3-5) and the Iraqi's did want to die. (Rev 9:6) This was followed by economic sanctions and bombings in the no fly zone for twelve years. (Rev 11:6) Which was followed by the collapse of two witnesses in one hour, and in that same hour a tenth of the city fell, thousands of people were killed, and the survivors were terrified. (Rev. 11:13) And the dead bodies of the two witnesses did lay in the street of the great city, where also their Lord, the World Trade Organization was impaled. (Rev 11:8) And it was seen by the whole world, and they were refused burial. (Rev 11: 9) Six months after their attack they did ascend up to heaven in the New York lights for thirty-three days. (Rev 11:12) And now the solution to the terrorist problem in this global war on terror is the REAL mark of the beast ID right on schedule, which does require our biometric information; the print on of the hand of the right, and of the forehead, to be attached to an image that can speak, without which we cannot buy or sell. (Rev. 13:11-17) We are told that the beast which is a coalition of super powers, regional powers, military and financial powers who wants to monitor everyone, (Rev 13:1-16; 17:8-14)) is the same beast who destroyed the two witnesses. (Rev11: 7) Even though we are commanded to submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake. (1Pet. 2:13) God forbids us to submit to this. (Rev. 14:9-10)

  Headed for a beheading Posted November 7, 2008 7:26 PM
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  Hey all you who are bashing religious people, LISTEN to this!! I totally agree that church and state must be separated. In America, religion has no place in politics, all it does is stand as moral ground work people have. All this fear of National IDs from religious groups roots down to the same thing. National ID cards have the POTENTIAL to lead to civil and religious liberty restrictions and even discrimination (don't even say it doesn't happen, cause it does now and will forever!) None of them wants that (who would?) because to them being restricted or punished for their faith is an intolerable attack on their very souls and salvation. SO THEY ARE VERY WARY OF THAT. People, fighting against anything that could possibly infringe on religious liberty is the history of our nation and that will never change! If YOU don't like that, move somewhere where religion doesn't exist. Anyway, even if you are not religious at all, it is NOT paranoia to KNOW that such a thing as a National ID card would infringe on personal liberties. Privacy, freedom of movement (i.e.- transportation), and access to what is ours by right as US citizens will all be gone if not barely existing if a true card is actually issued and you decide to exercise YOUR rights by refusing to carry one. It -wrong- to the point of perversity. What are the values we hold as a nation? And for what? What is the trade off? This won't solve illegal immigration because when the time comes for cards there will be how-many million with no proof of identity. What are we going to do, ship all of them out, or maybe suddenly allow them to become citizens? The card WILL NOT protect against identity theft. NOTHING is fool proof, and guess what, "almost" is -never- enough. You make the game harder for identities to be forged; the "black market" ups the ante and simply makes forgeries more expensive. That's all. As for terrorism, terrorists can be completely legitimate "card-holding" citizens of the US or other nations with similar systems. And they will do just as much damage. The real threat of terrorism is not -stupid- people who just up and decide to do it one day. Real terrorists are -trained- and if "official" will probably be provided by their group a means of getting convincing enough identification to get by for however long is needed. Just, why?

  Attention here! Posted January 11, 2008 8:46 PM
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  The church has no business voicing an opinion here or on any political issue period! If you want to be heard pay taxes like the rest of us, so until then put a sock in it.

  Rick Posted May 4, 2006 8:59 AM
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  What happened to the separation of church and state? If the state is to stay out of church business and not tax church property then the church should stay out of political business and not support candidates. Any church group involved in organized political issues, lobbying or support of political candidates for any government position should give up their tax exempt status!

  Also, even though the elected officials will continue to seek church support of political positions, the tax law only should exempt property used directly in the worship function of the church -- not schools, rental properties or investment portfolios would be exempt from income tax requirements. Why are we as a government subsidizing investment options for churches?

  Taxpayer Posted April 21, 2006 8:18 AM
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  All this talk of implants and chips is unnecessary. A major grocery chain here in the Chicago area has begun a "pay by touch" program. The cornerstone of the program is your fingerprint. So, I now go to the store, identify myself, and pay for my purchases at the register by placing my index finger on the reader. Duh, if a grocery store can use fingerprints, why can't the government?

  Contracting Officer Posted April 20, 2006 5:45 PM
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  It is the height of hypocrisy for us to worry about Iraq turning into a theocracy while at the same time religious zealots in this country want to steer the United States in that very direction. Whether National IDs are a good idea, a bad idea or an amoral idea is not something that should be left up to the priests and the religious establishment to decide. I do believe these issues are traditionally handled by governments? Yeah, I think I read something on that somewhere.

  David Posted April 20, 2006 12:09 PM
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  Whether it happens soon or a little later there will be a national identification system. In fact, there will ultimately be a world standard aimed at providing an identification record for each and every person alive. The United Nations has already been planning it.

  This identification is becoming necessary as the world population continues to increase faster than world resources. The identification system is, in theory, the only way to make sure that resources are distributed properly and, like any technology, it can be abused. Religious organizations can argue against it. But, they have been the greatest advocates of being fruitful and multiplying.

  If people don't want a national/worldwide ID system, they had better get busy and bring about zero population growth so there will be adequate local resources for everyone and we won't have to worry so much about how to feed, clothe and provide medicine for everybody.

  Robert M. Posted April 19, 2006 2:14 PM
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  Get a grip! Move to a free country! Join a support group! See a priest!

  Mike Posted April 19, 2006 8:58 AM
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  So, Republicans ran for office claiming to be fiscal conservatives, only to run up a record deficit. They ran for office pretending to be strong on security, only to fail miserably in actually making us safer. They ran for office promising to win the war on terror, only to cease all attempts at catching Osama bin Laden. They ran for office babbling about "moral values," only to be caught taking bribes from Jack Abramoff. They ran for office flinging insults at "activist judges" and demanding a return to the rule of law, only to support warrantless wiretaps and amnesty for illegal aliens.

  If I hear a Republican pledge to eliminate childhood obesity, I think I'll open my own clothing store, catering to 500-pound grade-schoolers!

  GovExec.com reader Posted April 18, 2006 3:40 PM
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  What do these religious leaders think of the Social Security card? Without the government issued card, one cannot work, bank, go to school, get credit, rent an apartment, buy a house, buy a car, get a driver's license to drive the car, etc. I am neither in favor of nor against the national ID, because national ID's are common throughout the world. The difference is the size and population of the countries.

  GovExec.com reader Posted April 18, 2006 11:34 AM
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  I wasn't aware that REAL ID included putting marks on the forehead and hand, although it would certainly simplify the identification process. What I am really surprised at is that some religious organizations are embracing the idea of border fences. The Creator could have erected fences or walls when He made rivers and mountains, but didn't. The people of the Bible wandered freely over the Middle East, and the only wall I remember is the one around Jericho brought down by Joshua's trumpets. God doesn't like walls. Immigration control and security against terrorism are secular issues and very complex --especially in a free society. Preparing souls for the next world is difficult enough; religious leaders should focus on that and leave the secular world to those who specialize in secular things.

  GovExec.com reader Posted April 18, 2006 10:29 AM
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  When you think about the surveillance/tracking ability that is indicative of micro-chip implants along with the potential for its use to either include or exclude individuals from basic markets, it is truly frightening. I will not accept any kind of implant from any source. Whether you are a Christian or not, common sense should tell you that the bottom line for use of such devices is exclusionary. One day we will be scanned for medical records, political affiliations, Christian, non-Christian, etc.; and we'll only be able to buy groceries, etc., if we meet established criteria. Perhaps it is time for U.S. citizens to rise up and demand that these devices only be used under certain circumstances on a voluntary basis. Our right to privacy continues to be eroded by government scare tactics.

  Tim Ellmore Posted April 18, 2006 7:37 AM
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  "Baxter said he is particularly disappointed in President Bush, who he had hoped would be more sympathetic to Christian concerns about national IDs." Baxter does not represent Christians! He may represent some but then again Pat Robertson represents some also and who would listen to him?

  National IDs are not a religious item. The problem is that the enforcers of the system are not Christian because they have proven that they will cheat, lie and steal to get the money and power that they can to better themselves and their friends. The system is not the problem, it is the people involved.

  The United States keeps far better track of our cars than we do our people (legal and illegal). By the way, the illegal people would have been legal a few decades ago! Congress needs to get real and return to the basic values of this country and stop trying to close the door on immigration while they try to open the door on trade! Our elected representatives try to do what keeps them in office for many years rather than what is good for the country. Even George Washington (George the first) knew that eight years was the longest anyone should stay in government as an elected representative! Get term limits of eight years of total service for anyone elected to any office in the federal government!

  Taxpayer Posted April 18, 2006 7:03 AM
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  What are you worried for? He already listens in on your phone calls, arrests you without a warrant, strips you naked and holds you for months in a jail cell, beats you to death, terrorizes your family, confiscates your personal homes and all you worked for in your life and now you are worried because you think he wants to put an ID stamp on your forehead. Get a life people.

  Charlie Posted April 17, 2006 9:56 PM