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Return to Article: Best of Both Worlds

• 87414
  

  Worst of both worlds doesn't describe it. It robbery. With 29 years federal service time and 34 years paying social security. I will continue to lose annuity combined with s.s. for each year that I continue to work, because of the interest that I owe, plus military buy back. I now owe $58,000. If I don't pay it back, before I retire I lose 10% of that amount which includes the interest, which would be close to $100,000 at age 62. After 11 months of waiting, I get a civilian buy back charge of $47,000. Most of it is interest. $33,000 interest and another $8,500 interest for military. I lose about $30 each year from what my social security would have been for each year that I remain under offset. In the end, my annuity will amount to about $1,100 and my s.s. will amount to less than $500 and I will be a prisoner of age 62 and will have to continue to work under offset so that I can live from month to month. At age 70 and still under offset, My total annuity with S.S. will be about $1200 a month or less, as the interest will be an unknown amount in the hundreds of thousands. Under CSRS, I would be getting $3,000 annuity with my full s.s. benefits and be retired next year. OPM or any of my H/Rs never told me anything about the paybacks, deposits and redeposits, much less the interest over the last 30 years. Because they don't know or care until you want to retire and then you have to wait another year for them to figure it out. Plus, now I will get penalized if I want to get a job and make a living? What a farce this whole thing is. I never received an option to be under FERS, where I could have invested in matching funds or took a real civilian job with a real retirement. I will eventually lose my VA home loan, The VA will then garnish the remainder of my annuity. There are people who have never worked or paid in a dime to social security, who receive over $500 a month on S.S.I., plus food stamps and free health care. No bank will loan me $58,000 and even if I could pay $500. a month in paybacks, the interest added each year will keep the payback at that same amount or higher. Guess I'll have to play a couple $100 in lotto every month and hope I win before the death age of 62.

  S. Sawyer Posted September 24, 2009 2:30 AM
• 78177
  

  Getting the shaft is an understatement. During my pre-retirement briefings and planning, I was told what my retirement would be (based on my high three). It took OPM 5 months to figure out my pay and then told me that my pay was reduced by almost $1,000.00 because of this offset. This is outragious. I earned this money and planned on it. Social Security told me that they had no record of OPM contacting them about my annuity and that they didn't require my annuity to be reduced since I worked more than 30 years. I'm both confused and mad as hell!!!!

  Jean Gaccione Posted May 21, 2009 11:20 AM
• 75719
  

  i will retire @ the age of 65 with 28 1/2 under CSRS and expected to recieve approximaely $53K/year in pension.

  I have 32 quarters under SS in private sector before joining the Federal service.

  How much it would be benificial for me to complete 40 quarters by working another 8 quarters after I retire? would I be eligible for social security pension in addition to CSRS?

  Thanks

  GM Malik Posted April 24, 2009 9:40 PM
• 74952
  

  I am CSRS, my husband is CSRS Offset, will I receive a full survivor benefit or will the SS portion be eliminated or reduced? I believe my husband will receive a full survivor benefit.

  Myra Juggins Posted April 16, 2009 8:36 AM
• 74570
  

  I have read all the comments while looking to an explanation to my long waited question which no one seems to answer. Perhaps you can address it in the future: My wife is under OWCP (she suffered a job related injury which will not get better. She was approved OPM pension (which is offsetable by OWCP and SSA Benefits, part of which is also offsetable by OWCP. If I die while she is still collecting OWCP benefits, will she be able to collect survivor benefits? or will these be offset by OWCP also. I understand that unless the amount of the pension is higher than her OWCP payments there would be no use on providing for a survivor benefit at my retirement. Please address this issue.

  Santos Mercado Posted April 11, 2009 12:05 AM
• 74535
  

  I'm in CSRS Offset. I would like to know can I retire at 58 after 30 years of federal service and still get my full benefits? Also, how do I find out where the amountof CSRS funds I have available and where is the money being maintained.

  Jacqueline N. Darden Posted April 10, 2009 11:17 AM
• 74465
  

  I have been CSRS offset since 1991 - how do I find out where and the amount of CSRS funds I have available and where is the money being maintained.

  Beatrice J. Penman Posted April 9, 2009 3:32 PM
• 74453
  

  I was hurt on the job in 1983, returned to work in 1993 and HRO put me in CSRS Offset. In 2007 they found out that they were wrong & put me totally under CSRS since I was drawing OWCP pay for all those years & that is not considered break in service.From 1993 to middle of 2007 I paid both SS & CSRS. In 5/09 I will turn 62 & have 41 yrs 11mo.How will I get the SS i paid in? Will they treat me as Offset & will the WEB or GPO apply to me?

  Lillie Jensen Posted April 9, 2009 1:55 PM
• 74446
  

  I recently put on a Seminar of Labor Laws at OSU and had a SSA official as one of the speakers. I sat in and listened to his presentation, and after 37 years in the Government, I heard, for the first time, that since I am over 66 and covered by Civil Service Retirement and I lso have qualifed under Social Security for the other jobs I have worked, I can draw full SS benefits and continue working for DOL, without any loss of income. I also found out that SS would go back 6 months to my birthday and pay a lump sum payment for the months that I could have been drawing Social Security. What a Shocker!! Never has this been mentioned in all the meetings I have attended over the years? If I had not been lucky enough to sit in on the presentation, I would have never known, and lost Thousands of Dollars.

  Richard L. Repasky Posted April 9, 2009 12:35 PM
• 74385
  

  I retired with 23 years of CSRS annuity. I went back to work as Contractor support employee paying toward Social Secutiey. Last year I returned back to Federal government job as Rehired Aunnitant. According to the SS Administration that I have earned enough quarters to be eligible for SS benefits. How can I find out about the Off-set and how long do I have to work to be able to receive SS benefit based on current work performance?

  Song Zobrist Posted April 9, 2009 6:40 AM
• 57561
  

  I am currently CSRS Offset retired at age 55 and 30 years. I am currently employed in the private sector. I will reach age 62 in two years. Will my offset to my federal retirement from social security use the social security amount reduced by the $1 for $2 amount OR will the social security amount reported to OPM be the amount before the $1 for $2 reduction?

  Ron DeBerry Posted September 1, 2008 10:27 AM
• 57430
  

  Still confused about my CSRS-Offset/SS and GPO/WEP. I plan to retire (CSRS-Offset) and understand how the SS will be higher and my annuity will be less. But under whose SS do I claim, mine, which is limited, or may I claim using ex-spouse's SS, quite good? And where does GPO/WEP figure in here? My HR is not helping me, SS is not responding. How can I retire if I really don't know what I am going to be able to earn? Also, if I want to work part-time while retired, does the earning limit affect me? Thank you.

  Barb Swann Posted August 28, 2008 12:23 PM
• 48592
  

  One more question re CSRS-Offset. After age 62, will the government COLA I receive be based on my full retirement or the reduced amount I received from CSRS?

  leslie blosse Posted April 15, 2008 11:59 AM
• 47104
  

  I'm a little confused as to what i'll get from Social Secutity. I worked 44 quarters in the pivate sector. I now work for the post office. I started in 1983 and stayed with CSRS. At 55 I'll have 30 years in at 55 years of age. Eligible for retirement. How will my social security be affected if I wait until I'm 62? Does CSRS offset have anything to do with me? I here all sorts of things but nothing definite.

  Milan Norum Posted March 24, 2008 5:55 PM
• 33960
  

  For those of you who would like to see what your offset will look like, OPM has the formulas on their site.

  Basically, 1. SSA is to calculate 2 figures, one with offset service and one with earnings non included in offset service.

  2. The calulated total of both earnings is multiplied by the number of years of offset service and divided by 40.

  Whichever is the lowest amount is the amount OPM is to offset your CSRS annuity. You then receive, supposingly, the largest computed SSA benefit with a reduces CSRS benefit.

  Janet Posted September 27, 2007 7:17 PM
• 33959
  

  I love this. First of all, I believe since I took early retirement, I HAD to file for SSA at 62. For my SSA time without CSRS time, I earn $425. For my 14 years of offset time, I earn a net of $73. During this time I also worked outside SSA so had a number of years for SSA to compute. When they did my calulations, I found $100 difference. No one seems to be able to explain this to me. However, when I compute $73 * 12 it equals $876, which I computed my monthly benefit as a figure but $876 is an annual difference in reality. When I compute $876 # 20 yrs (life expectancy) I have $17,520. If divided by 20, I have $767 monthly which is what SSA computed for me as a monthly benefit. (some where in here there is that $100) Anyway, If I compute (approx) what my contributions were during the 14 yr offset period, I have roughly $17,520. In other words, I receive all my original contributions back if I am so lucky as to live another 20 years. So where are those high earnings benefits? Curiously, the GPO offset is being reviewed for those who may or may not have contributed to either fund. But what about those of us who actually PAID into both funds? Not only did we pay over what non-government employees paid in withholdings (SSA) but we also get to pay taxes on the CSRS annuity. As far as survivors, I believe CSRS has to pay for that extra and SSA does not. The employee's benefit is cut in more than half for that allowance under SSA. There are approx 67 million baby boomers going into retirement, most with an average of $1000 a month. So who is going to buy those products? So who is going to be in poverty programs? I don't think it was because we didn't work. Not a good scenario for those who paid involuntarily into two funds. Go back to work? Almost have to. Then that would mean full SSA tax on new earnings plus taxes on SSA benefits. At the time of the offset service, I was not given a choice. I was told I was going to be an offset.

  Janet Posted September 27, 2007 7:12 PM
• 31415
  

  As a Civil Service Offset employee, I also am quite confused as to how to figure my retirement benefits. I have a total of thirty-two years of Federal government employment and approximately twelve years of Civil Service Offset employment as well as Social Security credits previous to joining the Federal workforce. I recently applied for Social Security benefits and was told that because of my Federal employment, my Social Security benefits will be cut upon retirement. When I retire hopefully in 2008, I should have approximately twenty years of Social Security time. I am, therefore, wondering if I will be exempt from the WEP.

  Mary Ann Centanni Posted August 22, 2007 9:43 PM
• 31323
  

  This is toooo confusing. I feel like I need a financial planner just to figure out what the best option is! Since I will be retiring at age 59 1/2 and plan to work until age 65, I am not sure if it is better to claim SSA benefits at age 62 or wait until I am 65. Note: I will be retiring witn 30 years of government service, with about 10 years of CSRS service and 20 of CSRS offset service.

  Margie Linn Posted August 21, 2007 11:50 AM
• 16671
  

  In response to: As far as I know, no one gets a Social Security supplement until they reach the age of 62. Is there some loophole here for FERS employees?

  The FERS Supplement is not paid by Social Security. It is part of the FERS basic benefit and provides a bridge between a FERS retirement and qualifying for Social Security at age 62. It is payable on an immediate, unreduced FERS retirement (under age 62). It begins at retirement or at the FERS MRA (although special groups like law enforcement may receive the supplement immediately upon retirement even if under the MRA).

  Tammy Flanagan Posted May 11, 2006 3:37 PM
• 16667
  

  I would like to respond to the previous reader who wrote: I don't know how you can say the CSRS Offset is "Best of Both Worlds."

  You write: "Is Offset more like CSRS or FERS?" The response: CSRS. Not true. FERS employees receive a match but CSRS did not.

  I say: That's one reason why it is more like CSRS. Another reason is that the basic retirement calculation mirrors the CSRS computation rather than FERS. The benefit receives full CSRS COLA's after retirement.

  You say: If I retire at the age of 60, I can only work for another two years before Social Security comes after me with their brutal penalty of taking $1.00 for every $2.00 earned. A typical CSRS retiree can work and make as much as he/she wants before Social Security strikes him/her.

  I agree with you on this one. If you are working above the annual earnings limit for SSA ($12,480 in 2006), you will lose $1 of SSA for every $2 of earned income over the limit. You will receive credit for these additional earnings towards your SSA benefit, however. All is not lost! Plus, by delaying your SSA, you also avoid some (or all) of the age penalty. Although you may lose some (or all) of your SSA benefit while you continue to work, you will not lose your offset CSRS benefit. The offset is usually not that severe unless you have spent the majority of your career under CSRS Offset. The earnings limit only applies until you reach the full SSA benefit age.

  You say: All they have to do is achieve enough credits to be eligible for benefits from Social Security.

  I say: CSRS employees can qualify for SSA, but they typically do not have a very substantial benefit due to the lack of SSA earnings during their career along with the effects of the WEP and GPO.

  You say: Increased benefits under Social Security? Please!!

  I say: It is true!! See what I mentioned in the previous sentence. SSA computes a benefit on the high-35 years of SSA wages ... adding high wages to your SSA benefit can be the difference between $100 versus $1000 per month!

  Tammy Flanagan Posted May 11, 2006 3:23 PM
• 16666
  

  I am responding to: Now I don't get both in total I get nothing in Social Security if my retirement exceeds a specified dollar amount.

  I think you are confused between the CSRS Offset retirement program and the Windfall Elimination Provision of Social Security. I plan to write about the Windfall and the Government Pension Offset in a future article.

  Tammy Flanagan Posted May 11, 2006 3:08 PM
• 16464
  

  I don't know how you can say the CSRS Offset is "Best of Both Worlds." It is not -- a more accurate description is "Worst of Both Worlds."

  You are not stuck in the horrible category!! Why do I say this? Because I am a CSRS Offset and understand more about this retirement category than most people do. The article addresses a question "Is Offset more like CSRS or FERS?" The response: CSRS. Not true. FERS employees receive a match but CSRS did not. It was not until recently the restriction for the amount of contribution can exceed 5 percent. Right now, I have paid into Social Security for 38 years, substantial earnings. I cannot retire from CSRS until I reach the age of 60. At that time I will have 27 years of CSRS service. If I retire at the age of 60, I can only work for another two years before Social Security comes after me with their brutal penalty of taking $1.00 for every $2.00 earned -- that is 50 percent of the earning or half of my pay above minimum wage -- not even substantial earnings!! The only job I could do would be minimum wage before the penalty hits. This does not happen to a CSRS retiree. A typical CSRS retiree can work and make as much as he/she wants before Social Security strikes him/her. All they have to do is achieve enough credits to be eligible for benefits from Social Security.

  Increased benefits under Social Security? Please!! The only thing I will not be subject to is the Windfall Elimination Provision. I feel have not seen a benefit to being cornered in the CSRS Offset category yet. Life after retirement is nonexistent for Offsets unless they are willing to work half price.

  GovExec.com reader Posted May 1, 2006 12:56 PM
• 16190
  

  I'm confused as to whether I am really in CSRS Offset. I have a letter 'A' appearing in the "Retirement" portion of my pay stub which I understand indicates that I am under CSRS Offset. But, when reading your latest article dealing with the issue I'm not so sure.

  First of all, you state that such individuals won't receive matching agency contributions to their TSP account. My employer is making the maximum 5 percent contribution.

  The other is that I'm having the correct 0.8 percent taken out for my CSRS Offset Retirement, but only 5.8 percent (versus 6.2 percent) for the Social Security portion. Is the difference due to the fact that my agency is contributing 5 percent to my TSP account and that amount is, therefore, being reduced from my gross pay prior to computing my Social Security deduction? If so, are there consequences as a result of this reduced tax (i.e. a lower reported wage to the Social Security Administration resulting in a smaller Social Security retirement benefit)?

  I also have a question about a statement made in your original CSRS vs. FERS article on March 31. You had a small table for a person retiring at age 56. The table shows that they'll get a $10,800 Social Security supplement under FERS. As far as I know, no one gets a Social Security supplement until they reach the age of 62. Is there some loophole here for FERS employees?

  Mike Wilson Posted April 14, 2006 11:46 PM
• 16189
  

  If a CSRS Offset employee retires at age 55 with 30 years of service, there doesn't seem to be any protection for a later loss of benefits in the event Congress reduces social security benefits after the Offset employee's offset amount has been determined at age 62.

  GovExec.com reader Posted April 14, 2006 10:15 PM
• 16173
  

  The offset is a farce. Non-government employees get their retirement plus social security. Government employees get short changed. I worked almost 30 years under CSRS. I also have work 40 quarters to get Social Security. Now I don't get both in total I get nothing in Social Security if my retirement exceeds a specified dollar amount. Another way the Congress has shafted the government worker.

  GovExec.com reader Posted April 14, 2006 10:03 AM
• 16170
  

  This column has been the most concise and truly helpful government retirement information I've read to date! Even our own HR offices don't seem to be able to present the facts in clear, straight-forward terms. Thanks for this series! I hope the imbedded links never break, as I've filed these to retrieve at a future date when I'm closer to retirement. However, your insight has provided me with better decision-making tools for use along the way.

  Linda Cowan Posted April 14, 2006 9:22 AM