Return to Article: Pentagon releases long-awaited details on personnel reforms
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32941
I am a Nurse Manager for a substantial batch of GS-10's and GS-6's and a GS-4 Clerk at a Army Hospital in Coastal Georgia. I know it sounds wrong, but I am a mere Staff Sergeant (and yes...I'm venting right now) Granted, they are nurses who work flexible work schedules, but I have never seen such a bunch of disgusting, overweight, lazy, not-taking-care-of-their own-bodies bunch of people in all my life? Nope. It's gross. They're supposed to be nurses right? Well, they were already hired before I got there. I have 3 constantly teetering on the edge of Leave Restriction...& I do their jobs for them so constantly (because I have no depth in my staff and work the floor when they call in sick) that I should be collecting their paychecks 1/2 the time! I can run 2 miles in 12 minutes, and they can eat 12 bon-bons in 12 minutes.
Quite frankly, I wish I had more time out of my 65 hour week to take away from menial clerical, administrative, and logistical tasks, so I could dedicate more time to counseling these paycheck robbers and save the Government a few thousand dollars a year, but I honestly don't. It's the catch-22 of working as a military supervisor over GS civilians...they walk on you because they know you have 12 million things to do and deadlines to meet every day that prevent you from creating a paperwork trail to fire them. And by the time you create the paperwork trail, it's time for you to PCS or deploy, and then they have a new supervisor and a clean slate!!
Remind me to apply for a GS job when I retire...oh, no wait! I have too much self respect to go that route!
BTW: If you were wondering, am I a laxy @%&% or a Jaded Jerk? Perhaps, but I'm also a Sergeant Audie Murphy Club Member and well respected among my military peers. There are certain things that we, (Soldiers), did not raise our right hands for. Working a B-S job like this is one of them. I would rather place myself in harm's way and lead real Soldiers on a daily basis than constantly be "On Call Nights and Weekends" to account for a group of poor performers from the civilian sector.
Sorry friends, but that's the real world outside of a Metropolitan Area.
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14030
Under this new system I do not want my personnel to kiss butt; now employees think for themselves and do not hesitate to challenge. Do we want robots? Those who perform get rewarded. I think the new system will take the rewards out of my hands. I do not know of any supervisors or managers who want this system, I believe it is a way of pay limitation. Even the poor performer has always been there when you really needed them, why fix something that isn't broke?
Concerned
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13861
Professional Government Employee: tell me how you would know what a blue collar worker does in a day's time? How many times have you gone out of your way or out of your air conditioned office to talk to one? They are the ones who fix your plumbing, electricity, heating and cooling. They are the blue collar people you have just put down, and I for one I am married to a blue collar worker and I am a GS employee. If you ask me, the GS employees are the biggest complainers I know of in the government. The blue collars -- sure they complain, but have you bothered to look at WG scale they have to go by? NPS Employee
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13843
If you think "fresh ideas" are non-existent in the GS system, wait until NSPS. It will be hard to put forth fresh ideas in an environment when you are expected to simply say "Yes, sir, yes, sir, three bags full." Okay, so you were in the Marines and got out. You were in private sector and got out. Now, you're in civil service and are getting out. You don't hang in there very long, do you? The GS system is not broken. There are aspects that need improving but that's true of the military and the private sector. Mainly, it's management that needs improving but NSPS doesn't address that at all. It's sad that you would paint the majority of GS' with the same brush. We have deployed with the military everywhere they've gone and provided essential support. Our job is to make sure the military can do its job, and that makes our job important. We have never failed to do our job so I don't see how you can say that most of us are lazy and just collecting a check. Stick around for a while and work with those of us who actually contribute to the defense of this nation.
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13835
Nullrout basically is correct in his observations of lazy government employees. I have been around a lot longer than he and have seen the same thing. However, Nullrout is missing the basic problem with the proposed evaluation and pay system.
The "pay-for-performance" system is designed to allow political appointees the power to pay off those that implement their political program and stop pay to those that oppose them. Therefore, the lazy civil servants will be forced to become yes people. Today, I can preserve my purchasing power because of the "automatic" pay increases issued across the board but in the new system that goes away. I think this is a big mistake because it gives the stupid political appointees the power to evolve a workforce that either sits in the corner and does nothing unless told to do it (those lazy people he sees today) or those that do anything they are told because they want to get a pay increase and not worry about what Congress wants.
This pay issue should be a basic discussion of the power of the federal government branches. This system provides the executive branch with much more power and Congress needs the sense to stop it before it gets going. Once rolling this new system will be nearly impossible to reverse. Congressional intent will mean nothing and Congress will not have the power to impact government actions and policy because they have changed all civil servants into robots operating to get pay increases. Those who fight the system may last a while but eventually will have to move as their purchasing power is drained to almost nothing -- a result of the inflation generated by tax cuts and increased government spending. The USA is looking a lot like Argentina as far as economic activity is concerned. We have far too much debt and far too big a federal government. Government handouts are the order of the day because our "professional" politicians need to get re-elected to maintain their life styles.
We need to oppose this pay system and implement term limits to preserve the country and move forward.
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13802
Yep, I must be naive because I've only been a federal civilian for two years. Sounds like more fear, uncertainty and doubt coming from the scared GS. I did four years of active duty in the Marines. Yep, never saw any lazy GS' there. That is sarcasm by the way. Yep, I couldn't make it the private sector, never mind that I was there for 3 years. I took the federal job for stability. No other reason period. Everything has its good and bad points. I put up with the bad to get the good.
Do you want to know what most of the military thinks of GS'? That they are overpaid and lazy. Do you think they just came up with this idea on their own? No, someone gave them a reason to think that.
I have not read every regulation under NSPS. Who has? It very well may be broken too. My point was the people I see whining and crying -- yes most of you are -- are the problem with the GS system in the first place. And if it is broken they will either have to fix it, or it will collapse under its own weight.
"Put my time in, new guy." Yeah, moronic comments like that are why I really don't see myself staying the government much longer. I'm tired of that mentality. Forget fresh ideas. Just slave along under the old system because it "works" for now. And Art, you are right: I don't think much of some of the GS' I've run into. Note that I said some, not all. But, I think the GS system fosters laziness. I know there are hard-working people everywhere. But that is not the general perception from the outside world. And something I've learned is that perception is reality.
This is the last you'll hear from me on this matter. Insult away as always happens on GovExec.com, but I'm done with this. What ever will be will be. I can't change that, but I'm not going to whine about it blindly either.
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13760
To Nullrout:
You missed the point. Under NSPS, you do bad, you get nothing. You do good, you get a promise of something, but it will likely turn out to be nothing because all the loopholes permit nothing for doing good if the powers that be say there is no money. Very much like with locality pay, which although it is the law has not once been implemented as intended.You should remove your rose-colored glasses.
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13754
Nullrout,
Did you bother reading the NSPS Regulations? Perhaps you can decipher it for the rest of us. You only think you were screwed for the couple of years you have been in government.
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13736
Amen, Nullrout.
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13727
Nullrout has sour grapes-Misery loves comfort, right? So whatever the private sector does is correct? If your boss told you to stab yourself would you do it and expect that all government employees have to do it as well? Sounds like a Lemming philosophy -- I hate Lemmings.
I've had it with the Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney (BRAC) team. Nothing good has happened under this administration. My parents hate them too. In response to their treachery, I have put a hateful, harsh, punitive curse on all of them (I have practiced this) and their personal lives. Their lives will become so miserable, they will never smile again. Then they will feel the pain they have inflicted on others!
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13725
Dear Nullrout:
Apparently, you have not been paying attention. While paybanding is closer to a real world system, federal managers are far from being real professionals. That is what has federal workers very concerned. The GS system failed because it was too easy for anybody to become a federal manager without any real qualifications. It was abused constantly. The new system still does nothing to hold managers accountable. It appears to make it even easier for them to cover their very unprofessional actions.A lot of the work gets done in the federal government by the hard working, ethical employees who often have to work around management just to keep things functioning. Now, their job will be to please the idiot boss and to heck with their duty to the government. If the system starts falling apart, the management will start blaming the workers. Who will blame the management?
The new paybanding system may end up in disaster if all federal workers start doing exactly what their bosses tell them to and nothing else. It will most likely cause an exodus of the most skilled federal employees who consider it unprofessional to kiss butt to get their pay increases. They want to be recognized as professionals, not the boss's good buddies.
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13723
I agree with Nullrout. Finally someone has the intelligence to see the benefits of NSPS. The dedicated hard working professionals will get raises, as they deserve. The cry baby slackers -- and we know most of them are of the blue collar type -- won't get a raise because all they do is try to get out of work and complain that they aren't being treated fairly. A new day has come. You can either get on the train and be successful or chase the train all day long. Your choice.
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13717
To Nullrout,
You have only worked under pay-for-performance a few years and you think you speak from experience. How long have you worked for the government? I have more than 28 years and I know what can happen. Seen it and have had it happen to me. One person can ruin your career due to office politics. You can be the best worker and bam, there it goes.
Why are you staying with the government? I would bet you would get fired if you worked in private industry.
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13704
So speak a few of the vocal minority.
Congress, are you listening? Have you heard the voices? These voices vote and many are not happy. While the guilt belongs to the Department of Defense, the fault belongs to you, the elected representatives of the people you just screwed.
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13701
Dear Nullrout -
Two years huh? How naive!
Please, before you make these types of statements, consider history. This same lazy, do nothing civilian workforce supported troops for as long as most of us can remember, put in all the hours it took to keep this government running even when Congress couldn't give us anything but a continuing resolution, and we are the best country in the world. It wasn't a lazy workforce, but an efficient, skilled, give a care workforce that made this happen.
NSPS is nothing but the same old reward your butt kissing constituents and it was that same stupid system that the GS system replaced. History -- take a look at it. You may be surprised.
You have a lot to learn!
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13700
Do good, get reward. Do bad, you earn nothing. What nonsense! You speak about the real world. My dad worked hard all his working life. The company he worked for is in bankruptcy. He was the hardest working stiff in his office. He never saw a pay raise for the last 10 years of his career. Pay cuts, pay cuts because the company needed to give more money to the pilots! His retirement is nothing, considering two-thirds of goes to pay his health benefits. People in the government are well aware of the "real" world and those who can get out are retiring. I'm not fond of NSPS, but you're missing the big picture. The supervisor will have absolute control over your job, no matter how hard you work. If they like you, you're in. If not, you're screwed. So I quit, then what? I get a job at Wal-Mart? Oh, but I'll be told I'm overqualified. This is the federal government that is supposed to provide services to the people. Unfortunately, the people only see political appointees who screw up all the time. Thanks for listening to me vent!
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13696
Nullrout,
It's not as simple as you think it is. In government we have certain special obligations to the nation and its people. Governmental entities have a great deal more power than most private concerns and greater harm can result from personal agendas, incompetence and so on. The nation needs an ongoing, professional workforce that will stay around long enough to keep the organizational memory alive and that will be able to resist pressures from politicians and "seagull managers" such as appointees. (Seagull manager: One who comes in, makes a lot of noise, craps all over everything and then flies away.) Take a look at some other countries with a government workforce based on nepotism, political connection, etc.
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13695
Ah, gee. Look everybody! Nutrot has got a whole two years in as a "federal civilian." Let's give the boy a hand. Applause, applause. Now I just bet you've got a real handle on this situation, haven't you? Uh, huh. As we used to say in the service, "Put your time in new guy."
Did it ever occur to you that those of us who've been around just a little bit longer than you aren't the least bit afraid of pay-for-performance if it really were pay-for-performance? Ya say ya got "screwed two years in a row"? And that's supposed to be okay because that's what happens in the private sector? Okay, enjoy it.
The "Nations Shameful Political Spoils" system isn't about performance anymore than the "Patriot Act" is about patriotism. It's all about hiding behind grandiose sounding words in a quest for power. Oh, in answer to your question about do I think things are different in the private sector. Yes, it is supposed to be different working for the government. All the trash management in the private sector is supposed to be left behind as you enter the government. Kind of like wiping your feet before you enter the White House.
The GS system never has been broken. What's been broken and still is, is the management system set up by the (shall we say) less than highly intelligent appointees in Washington. Faithful employees really should get raises based upon their longevity. That's why they're faithful. Don't get it yet? Ah, that's okay. Many Republicans obviously can't grasp the concept either.
Your little comment about "actually have to start working" is a dead give a way. You just don't think too much of your fellow "federal civilians" as you call them. Especially those who have been around for a while. Guess they're in your way, aren't they? Now there's a private sector attitude.
Those of us that really do hate it that much aren't afraid of change. We're afraid of insanity being accepted as intelligence. So guess what? We aren't leaving. Yeah, as you said, it's easy. But some of us (especially veterans) think that's a coward's way out. But I guess that's okay because that's what they do in private industry. Nope. A lot of us aren't leaving, but a lot of folks in Washington are going to be.
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13693
Nullrout, the reason people are scared is that the situation is not remotely as simple as you make it out to be.
There are more reasons to oppose NSPS than fear of change or laziness (the reasons you've hallucinated to give you an excuse to insult people). In passing the law that authorized NSPS, Congress demanded that collective bargaining be preserved. The regulations now say the Secretary of Defense and a number of other high-ranking officials can just throw out bargained agreements whenever they feel like it. This is only one of the ways in which the current state of the system is in flagrant violation of the law authorizing it. Only recently have drafts of "Implementing Issuances" (a term which appears nowhere in the law) been released. Further issuances can be made at any time, changing the system however the secretary of Defense sees fit, without review by employees, unions, courts, or Congress.
The definition of "good" performance is left entirely to your supervisor. If he judges you on how well you do your job, that's great. If instead he uses cronyism, racial bias, the flip of a coin, or something else unrelated to your actual job, it sucks to be you. NSPS does not seem to offer any meaningful remedy for these situations. You can grieve your rating, but the person addressing the grievance is expressly forbidden from examining your actual performance or substituting an accurate rating of their own. They can award back pay, but if your next rating is low because of retribution, you have the same problem. There don't seem to be any consequences for bad management.
You say we need NSPS because the GS system is broken. This doesn't follow. If the GS system is broken, we could look at the exact ways in which it is broken, and try to repair it. Or we could throw out both GS and NSPS and develop a completely new system which solves the problems of both. In order for the implementation of NSPS to be justified, it isn't enough to say that the old system is bad. What's necessary is that the new system be good. And the vast majority of employees don't think it is.
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13685
Nullrout,
Not all of us want to be suck-ups for the duration of our career. Perhaps you work for the "perfect" supervisor. But the real purpose of NSPS is not pay for performance - it's to cut funds because there aren't any. Bush has spent it all so your argument is meaningless. When it comes right down to it all they have to say, no matter how you perform, is that there are no funds available.
As NSPS pay bands are now structured, tell me how its fair that I, as a 13 at the top of the grade who has a master's degree, a stellar performance record (with many awards), who has voluntarily served in forward deployed areas and moved many times to meet the DoD mission with more than 9 years left to retire, will never get another raise. Are prices going to remain stable or decrease in the next decade? I don't think so. I wonder how many people will be affected in the same way?
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13673
It seems that everyone is afraid of NSPS. I have been under a demo program since I hired on as a federal civilian two years ago. There is nothing wrong with pay-for-performance. Yeah, I was screwed two years in a row and only received a small pay increase (on top of the 3 percent or so across the board raises). But guess what people, welcome to the real world. Do you think the private sector is any different? Or do you think that you should receive your raises just because you've been here X number of years?
The GS system is broken. You either get satisfactory/unsatisfactory, and as long as you get your "sat" you get your step raises. So as long as you didn't do something like get caught defrauding the federal government, you get a pay raise? Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Do good, get a raise. Do bad, get nothing. Why does this scare people so much? Does it mean that you will actually have to start working? If you hate it so much then quit. It really is just that easy! Oh, that's right you won't quit because you're afraid of change.
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13672
I have to admit that I feel sorry for all of you folks. I am now convinced that this government is sick. We have maniacs on ego-trips running this government, from Bush on down. We are all in trouble. Who ever heard of such a mess as and no one will ever figure it out. The Supreme Court is a loser for all of us; it knows not what it does or what it is even there for. God help us all.
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13670
Just great, I have worked my way from GS-4 to GS-13, only to be placed in a GS-9 through GS-13 pay band. According to the rather muddled implementation guidance, if you want to be kind enough to call it that, many different factors can change your pay -- many completely out of an individual's control. Oh, if forgot, flexibility is the key here -- never know if you are going to be able to pay the mortgage or not. The spin from DoD leadership is that the vast percentage of DoD employees are looking forward to NSPS -- do these guys ever get out of their limos? I think we should put our elected government officials in this system first to see how well it works. Instead of the National Security Personnel System it should be called the Non-Sense Personnel System. Unbelievable.
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13662
After several years of trying to understand the justification for NSPS and scrapping of the General Schedule, still I have no clue. This new system will just propagate the administration's drive to reward the faithful and punish those who do not blindly follow. There have been numerous times in my federal career when I had to go against the will of my manager, to uphold the law or as a moral obligation to my fellow workers, but felt secure in doing so by knowing that under the Civil Service regulations the onus was on that manager to prove I was not warranted my step increase, and thus I felt secure in standing my ground. Under this new NSPS, anytime I question the legitimacy of my manager's request, I will now have to think hard as to whether my moral obligation to do the right thing justifies the impact my decision may have on my family's financial security. With the implementation of NSPS, the question I will be forced to face will not be "should I do the right thing, but rather, should I do the expedient thing to protect my opportunity for a yearly increase! If they run pay-for-performance the same way they run the incentive awards program, this will be nothing but a give away to management cronies and pets, and there will be little if anything that you can do to object, protest or obtain equitable compensation.
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13660
I like how 13's in my career field are considered to be doing only "typical work" while in order to be an "expert" you have to be a 14 or higher. And, didn't the supervisors make out? In my career field the pay band for supervisor is GS 13/5 to GS 15/10 plus 5 percent. Sweet! How many supervisors do you know are worth a salary of GS 15 step 10 plus 5 percent? Welcome to the National Screw the Personnel System.
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13656
When I was a supervisor, I thought NSPS would make it easier to motivate and reward my folks. But I took a non-supervisory position a few years back and can better see it is a dangerous instrument in the wrong hands. My first supervisor gave me top-notch for initiative, problem solving, willingness to stand up for beliefs, etc., but my new one defines these same attributes as straying from my lane, operating as a loose cannon, and -- worst of all -- not being a team player.
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13644
Anonymous,
It won't help you! But probably you knew that and the question was rhetorical.
Not only can/will certain people give the money to their friends, but the money can be taken away to pay for more invasions, sweetheart deals for contractors, and so on. TSA has been told in at least one year - I think it was three, maybe more by now - that there isn't any money in the pot regardless of what someone "deserves"! Fight tooth and nail, folks! If they put it all into full swing tomorrow, keep fighting! We could still get it thrown out or mitigated even if they get it in. Remember, he can't stay in office forever, and the next president will likely throw Dubya's cronies out. If we have to go down, let's go down fighting!
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13639
Okay, now I have the proposed implementation for paybanding and compensation. Can anyone decipher and explain it on a level that will make proper sense to anyone?
These rules are simply intended to keep people from knowing what they are actually entitled to and make them clueless when trying to determine what they should be making or even able to properly plan for retirement.
Anything can change at the drop of a hat and this is an intentional mode of operation by this administration to have the ability to screw us royally. If you can't figure out what it all means and what you are entitled to then you can't stand up and defend yourself. I like how at the last minuet they tied paybands to the local markets (maybe it was always that way but I had not heard this until now). I thought that the local market scheme only went to replace the cost of living adjustments. This is a bad deal.
At least with the current pay structure if you were a GS-10 Step XX you got the same rate as everyone else nationwide and locality pay made up the difference. If this becomes reality, it will be a sad day for everyone.
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13638
How many shares will you get? Let the games begin! Just be careful as you go about the dog eat dog back biting as you may screw the boss or one of his/her pets. As for customers (the taxpayers) -- tough for them. In fact if you can get a taxpayer to file a complaint against a co-worker so much the better. Remember, if their "shares" go down there are more "shares" for you. The civil MadMax/Gladiator work environment as arrived, ain't you proud you voted for Bush?
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13631
In my career field these new rules mean that if you're a GS-13 near the top steps, and you have more than one year to retire, you will never get another raise. You can get a bonus, but that won't help you with your retirement since it doesn't count towards the High 3. I was already in this position under the GS system so how does NSPS help me?
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13627
Better start working on your apple polishing skills boys and girls cause their going to put NSPS in regardless of what the rank-and-file want. Never mind that we have won every war and skirmish without this system. It's going in! Good practice would be "Hey boss, lose a few pounds?" Or perhaps, nice shoes, let me get that lint off your jacket! Kissing butt is like drinking scotch. It's an acquired taste! After NSPS implementation we will all acquire the taste. You wannabe Republicans re-elected him. Enjoy it. Hope you're smarter in 2008.
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13626
It's about time it finally got out. Unfortunately, I downloaded the file and felt completely lost. As a supervisor, I'm supposed to brief my people. Un huh... with what? This and some slides? That'll answer a lot of questions. Being put in a bracket between $30,000 and $80,000 with possibility of location makes me feel worse. I would really like to ask Mr. England if he would work in the government under these circumstances.
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