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Return to Article: Judge sets date to consider challenge to Defense personnel rules

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  Vincent, Everyone wants to use the example of the lazy fed worker. I don't see that. I guess I am to busy dodging mortars and rockets in the war zone to notice. G.W. et al. blame the unions for the epidemic of lazy federal employees. If that were true it would be management's fault for letting that happen. No union would condone or protect such actions. Rumsfield likes to blame us for all of the DoD's problems. The NSPS wasn't designed to improve performance. It is a perfect way to break the systems back so to bring in contractors without competition. I am in mid-career and now they want to change the rules for the worst. What an insult the many of us who dedicated our professional and personal lives to the American war fighter. I believe their actions are borderline criminal.

  Mid-career federal employee Posted January 16, 2006 12:48 AM
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  Vinnie, Vinnie, Vinnie. Expressing your opinion out loud is your right but you should at least have some idea of what you're talking about there son. You just demonized an entire group of Americans, many of whom are veterans, through your obviously very limited, pitiful, and biased observations. Do you even understand the difference between a contractor and federal employees? There are good and bad, smart and stupid, lazy and hard working people in every walk of life in this magnificent country of ours. That's up to and including the President of the United States.

  Since you've made a statement based upon your observations, let me make one. You're in your early thirty's, probably been in the navy 10 to 15 years, and, you think you've seen it all. By the way, we're not civilians. We're federal employees, civil servants. We're actually part of the government. By way of example, your mom and mine are both civilians. Just like you'll be when you leave the Navy.

  Now, I've been in the military four years and a federal employee 33 years, for a total of 37 years. That's probably longer than you've been alive. Does that make me any smarter than you? Nope! Does it make me more experienced with both systems than you? Yup! Does it give me a lot more perspective than you? Absolutely! So Vinnie, as they say at the used camel dealers conventions. "Walk a mile in the camel's shoes before you criticize him, cause he just might spit at ya." Get the point?

  Art Doss Posted December 1, 2005 9:50 AM
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  All this talk about lazy civilian and military employees misses the point. It's not about the workers being lazy -- it's a supervision problem. If supervisors did their job -- the job they're paid to do -- none of you would be complaining about the other. C'mon supervisors, do your job. Earn those big bucks the way you're supposed to.

  GovExec.com reader Posted December 1, 2005 8:11 AM
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  Here we go again. The military versus the civilians. I also work with military and between PT and so called training days, hair cuts, meals on wheels, etc., they are gone more than at work. Then they retire and come in as GS-11s and up. Triple dippers. Retire from the military, retire from the government, and then retire as contractors when the rest of us are still working towards our first retirement. I would love to see the military on pay-for-performance and see how they like it.

  GovExec.com reader Posted November 30, 2005 7:07 PM
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  Vincent,

  What you say is true, for a small majority. I've seen the same in the military but I don't judge the entire military workforce by those few slackers who only add dead weight. I'm sure if you were faced with the changes NSPS are going to bring, you wouldn't be so quick to support it. Remember, NSPS has nothing to do with performance. The DoD civilian workforce has never failed to do its job in supporting and defending this nation. This is about money (there is none because of this administration's failed policies), power (Rumsfeld wants more) and croynism (a hallmark of this administration). It doesn't matter how well people perform under NSPS (and few people perform that well for a sustain period of time as indentured servants), all DoD has to say is "Sorry, there's no money for raises, locality pay or bonuses."

  GovExec.com reader Posted November 30, 2005 6:49 AM
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  Be careful there. My experience with military is similar to yours with civilians. I often wonder how come the government justifies time off for college classes, PT when everyone else in the government is required to take leave. Just like civilians they joke around, sit around and you can never find them.

  Maybe someday when you're looking for a DoD job as a civilian, you'll understand why civilians are upset about NSPS.

  GovExec.com reader Posted November 30, 2005 2:04 AM
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  A lot of the contractors around here have the same sit around drink coffee and smoke attitude as some civilians. I understand some military work long hours but some of them show up at around 8 make several personal trips a day including the BX/PX commissary and personal errands then leave at 12 and call it a day claiming that they are only required to be on base (not even at work) four hours to get credit for a full day. Every group has people that take advantage.

  GovExec.com reader Posted November 29, 2005 3:57 PM
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  I feel that it's about time the government finally got smart and changed the way it pays civilians. In my experience very few civilians actually do the work they have been hired to do in a timely, efficient and cost effective manner. Most of the civilians that work for the base IMA report for work, get their job assignment for the shift and then sit around drinking coffee and smoking until 30 minutes before lunch break. They then proceed to their job assignment, spend five minutes looking at it and then go to lunch. Then they show back up 30 minutes before their shift is over and leave ten minutes later. You can look at their shops and see them just sitting around.

  Vincent Viellenave Posted November 28, 2005 11:43 PM
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  John Gage: Let there be no mistake. This administration working in conjunction with Rumsfeld's boys and is out to eliminate collective bargaining. It's a bad thing! The trade off has always been less pay for better benefits. That's the credo of the federal employee. It's about sacrifice. It's about serving the taxpayer. Now all of a sudden we need to be like the private sector (without the private sector pay). No one has ever explained to me what is broke about DoD. We fight wars and we win. What's broke? 9/11 happened and all of a sudden DoD needs more flexibility? I don't buy it and neither do other rank-and-file workers. It doesn't make good sense. Get rid of NSPS before it's too late. Repeal it, get rid of it, band it, but get those union busters out of the defense department. One more suggestion John: Put union organizers on the Mexican border. I guarantee the Republicans with stop illegal immigration for sure. Follow the money John. Follow the money.

  GovExec.com reader Posted November 24, 2005 6:24 AM
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  Interesting, seems that April 1st will be early for 2006, falling on February 1st.

  Conehead Posted November 23, 2005 11:10 AM