Return to Article: Turmoil erupts over merging homeland security agencies
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69983
Regretfully, the answer is typically a conception that is so straightforward it would just necessitate a short period of time to get into place, but is typically left out.
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9692
I stand corrected. A former classmate of mine reminded me that in CITP, 8 or 9 people in the class did score above 95% in academics. It was the subsequent Customs Basic Enforcement School in which only one agent out of 48 scored above a 95% average. And the fact still stands that all of these other agencies are required to attend CITP and the I&NS was not. I was told by one former I&NS agent who left to go to Customs that a reason for this was that the I&NS didn't want it's agents to attend CITP for fear that they would use the training to make it easier to leave for another agency. Given the fact that the I&NS had one of the worst attrition rates of any federal agency, this could definitely be true. I agree that OJT is the BEST way to train, but all of these other agencies obviously agree that CITP is still necessary training. I saw several classmates who did the bare minimum to get through CITP, and who therefore probably didn't get much out of it. I also saw many others, including myself, who took it very seriously and got a lot out of it. I know I gained a ton from that training.
I never said I&NS agents were all "bums who couldn't get hired by anyone else", so you didn't get it straight. The I&NS does have some exceptional agents, and many other exceptional agents who left to go to other agencies. The FBI, DEA, and Customs have a lot of these former I&NS agents (again, BEFORE Customs was upgraded to journeyman 13 levels). But the I&NS did have much lower hiring standards than these other agencies, in addition to one of the worst attrition rates. There's just no arguing that.
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9669
Let me see if I understand this. Legacy INS agents are bums who couldn't get hired by anyone else, but every other agency including DEA, FBI, and legacy Customs are loaded with them. Legacy INS agents aren't "real" special agents because they haven't had CITP. If by chance they did attend CITP and excelled, it must've been a dumbed down bastardization of CITP. And people wonder why there is "turmoil" between the agencies. For the record, the class I attended was comprised of new ICE agents, legacy INS "old timers", and IRS. Since it was the 400th plus iteration of CITP, and the preceding class was attended by USSS and OSI, I assume that it is the same CITP that was offered to everyone else.
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9667
Could the Customs Agents that use this message board, please get back to work. There are Illegal Aliens out there and they are not in the office. The sign on the door "Immigration and Customs Enforcement" deters them.
Also, I could care less who you are or where you are from, DO the JOB that is assigned to you. The best training any agent could receive is OJT. I know, you Customs guys are great, and we INS guys are turds.
Hoping one day that I can be equal to a legacy Customs Agent. AH, I really do care about being equal. I will just keep enforcing the Immigration laws of this land, because no one has the courage or guts to do it with or without CITP.
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9628
It is true, there are only a couple of agents I can think of within Customs who came from the FBI or DEA. And there also aren't any agents I know of in the FBI or DEA who came from Customs (until after we merged into ICE, that is). Once people get accepted into positions within these agencies, they don't tend to transfer to other agencies (unless a disaster like the creation of ICE happens). It's a valid point - the FBI, DEA, and Customs were all agencies that had a tremendous retention rate, and INS agents applied to all of these agencies quite frequently. What's your point?
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9620
Let me start out by saying that although illegal immigration in this country has gotten completely out of hand, I agree that this is not the fault of I&NS employees, as it is true that they are completely outnumbered and handcuffed by ridiculous policies.
That being said, while it is true that at the time DHS was created, Customs had journeyman 13 levels and the I&NS only had journeyman 12's, Customs was only upgraded to the 13's in 2001. And prior to 2001, being journeyman 12's (like I&NS), there were still absolutely NO Customs agents who transferred to the I&NS, but plenty of I&NS agents who transferred to Customs. Sorry, but the journeyman issue was not the cause. This alone could end that argument.
In addition to that, it is a known fact that the I&NS had a lot of agents who were unable to get hired with other agencies. A former I&NS agent who I now work with used to work with an agent who was hired after 2 DWI convictions.
I do have more questions about the CITP program you attended, however. When I attended CITP, there was only one agent in a class of 48 who scored above a 95% in academics. Did you attend your CITP program solely with other current I&NS agents? If so, then the program would have been made into a technicality, just as the 2 week cross-training program for Customs and I&NS agents within ICE. They are not going to send current agents back to training at FLETC with any possibility that they could actually fail out and lose their current jobs. Additionally, despite what differences there may have been between the CITP program you attended and what CITP usually consists of, the fact is that agents from the Secret Service, Marshals, ATF, Postal Service, and OIG Offices all had to attend CITP while the INS did not. That says a lot, because if it didn't, then they would have eliminated the CITP program for all of these other agencies.
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9591
Great point. Just a thought, but what was the journeyman grade level for the agencies you mentioned? You mean nobody wanted to transfer to INS and go from a 13 to a 12? Astonishing. How many former FBI or DEA agents swell the Customs ranks? Give us all a break. Contrary to popular opinion, most of my legacy INS counterparts are college educated or prior military. A lot of us took the first federal law enforcement opportunity that came along, but some of us actually thought that immigration enforcement would be fulfilling. The predominant attitude judging from this board seems to be that since we started out in the federal system with a dysfunctional agency, we are somehow less qualified than the average Customs agent. Don't believe it. Even though, I already had over 28 weeks of FLETC academy training (like many of my classmates), I recently attended CITP. Let me tell you something. If this is the standard by which you measure investigators, we are all in trouble. There was a zero percent washout rate in my class, and a large number of students graduated with an average of over 95%. The top student in our class (a legacy INS agent) missed two questions during his entire stay. Many of our "administrative" investigations are much more complicated than the criminal "case" we were spoon-fed at CITP.
Prior to the merger, there were roughly 2,000 legacy INS investigators. Most estimates show that there are over 10 million illegal aliens in the United States. That's a 5000:1 ratio, and yet with a straight face people criticize INS investigators for not pursuing more "complex criminal investigations". INS agents are like the bilge pump on a submarine with screen doors, and you wonder why people eventually burn out and look to other agencies? Yes, our agency was a mess, but it was a reflection of public opinion and our nation's immigration policy. Everybody wants us to deport everybody else's illegal alien, but nobody is willing to do without their own cheap labor. Even Bernie Kerrick couldn't resist hiring an illegal nanny. Yet, former INS agents are somehow incompetent because we couldn't rid the country of illegal immigration in spite of porous borders and no backing from Washington or the American public. By the way, how's Mr. Bonner doing securing that border? Or is he just another INS clown now too?
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9479
One question: prior to the merger, how many Customs S/A's do you know who transferred to INS? I suspect your answer will be, zero. Alternatively, the rolls of Customs, DEA, FBI and pretty much every other alphabet agency are replete with "former INS" agents. As one of my "former INS" colleagues has said: "it stands for I'm Not Staying."
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9441
I can only believe it is new hires or idiots (no offense meant to the idiots) who believe nothing is wrong at ICE nor understand why the experienced agents are speaking out. There are very serious problems with our agency that need to be addressed and addressed NOW! My beef is not whose legacy agency duties are more important to Homeland Security or who are the better agents. Both legacy agency's duties are important and there are enough good & bad agents to go around from both legacy agencies. My complaint is that none of us are being given sufficient tools to effectively carry out what our job descriptions say that we must. To conduct complex investigations in our assigned program areas.
I take this duty VERY seriously. What ICE Agents do or do not do can effect the lives of thousands of people. If we are not allowed to carry out our legacy missions nor have the funds and the mechanisms in place to quickly and effectively conduct complex investigations, it will enable the terrorist or agent of a hostile country to purchase WMDs, TOW missiles, military vessels & aircraft and the more serious items as critical and dual use technology to use against our citizens in the U.S. or our military abroad. It will allow counterfeit (sub-standard) parts to be smuggled into this country which can and has caused civilian and/or military aircraft to crash (yes Virginia, there is more to our counterfeit investigations than Gucci purses). It will enable millions of dollars to get into the hands of our enemies to be used as tools against us. I could go on. We cannot stand by & do nothing when we detered from performing our duty and see our historical authorities being slowly erroded to other agencies that do not have a clue on how to conduct these investigations. I cannot say it better than Former Park Police chief Teresa Chambers, (on an unrelated issue). "IF I ALLOW MYSELF TO WALK AWAY FROM BEING SILENCED FROM DOING WHAT I WAS HIRED TO DO . . . THEN I HAVE TAKEN MY PATRIOTISM AND THROWN IT IN THE TRASH." You can stand by & say nothing. My conscience will not allow me to do the same. ICE COULD have been an awesome agency (bureau? service?) to contend with if we had a budget and people at the helm who understand what former Customs and INS agents duties were and what is required to carry out those duties. But I fear irreparable harm may have been done.
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9379
Not to beat a dead horse to the ground again, because our colleague from Newark, still doesn't get it, the reason your Post Merger SAC wanted the INS stats was so that he would not get into hot water by opening his mouth on something he or she, didn't know jack about, and later find himself answering congressional inquiries. I can tell you've only been on the job for a few years I can tell, because anyone with any REAL time under their belt, who wanted to make a criminal case out of an admin case could, it's called investigating. But I don't want to go on anymore it's all been said before, between legacy INS and Customs. As far as your whining on the badges, us in legacy INS would prefer to answer you SA from Newark, BADGES we don't need no stinking BAGDES. COWBOY UP
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9294
When we got our first "post merger" SAC he looked at the two sides of our now collective house. He told the INS side to deliver all it's agents stats and case updates to him ASAP. H told the USCS side to keep working, he was up to date on the Customs side and was very happy with it. He was quoted as saying he "wanted to weed out some dead wood". He was not happy with the INS side and spent many hours at the "Hemisphere", looking at what it was they were really doing. Our new SAC was a Legacy-INS Agent. Suprised? I have a few years on the job now, I seen and done more than most of the INS boys. I had a Legacy-INS agent tell me I'd have a hard time trying to meet his arrest stats. It seems he's arrested several hundred people (some more than once), and some even went to trial. I was later to find out that those arrests were 95% admin in nature. I now have about 100 total arrests to my name. I am proud to say that all are CRIMINAL in nature. Now were are hearing that the CNP ICE plan is scrapped, in place were are told that the Customs and INS sides will split. Each to there own..again. I hope so. I can't see working another day where it takes me the entire day to process ONE person, then knowing that I will not be the last person to see the "victim" again. Oh, and we were told that the new Badges and Creds are to be issued in 2 weeks! Great, but the problem is that the "brain-trust" at HQ will get their's first! All the rush(not really) so that the agents in the field are able to project a unified front and improve morale, etc. Sure, and what will they try to make me believe next??
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9136
I work at a very large office (as do the majority of all ICE agents) with over 100 agents. I don't know of a single one of them, even before Customs was integrated with INS agents, who is spending any significant amount of time investigating counterfeit merchandise. I also am not aware of a single agent who has gone to a flea market to look for leads on anything. It is both annoying and deceptive to attack legacy Customs for investigating trade fraud when it probably accounts for less than 1% of what they do. You could also bash the FBI for being responsible for the enforcement of laws against making illegal copies of videotapes, but it just doesn't hold water when you look at all that they do.
And the truth is certainly not that most of us have never or will never investigate high level cases. I certainly consider Title III cases and OCDETF cases to be pretty high-level, and most agents in my office have been involved in numerous of such cases in addition to the ones who have been involved in much higher profile cases. The reality is that now, we have much less support (virtually none) from headquarters to continue such cases.
The truth is that the vast majority of legacy Customs agents are not qualified to speak on behalf of legacy INS, and vice versa. So it is not appropriate to expect the other side of the house to accept these changes which have ruined them and to classify them as "whiners", "brats", or "cry-babies" for refusing to bend over. Accepting disaster is a losing mentality.
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9056
After two years of chaos in ICE, we begin to clearly see that it was all about smoke and mirrors, for the President to be able to say that he was doing "something" about our porous borders. Nothing useful has been done by uniting vastly different agencies.
We really need to split up Customs and Immigration investigative functions. I have spent 27 years in Customs/ICE. I now see that Immigration law is at least as complicated as Customs law. It is crazy to expect agents to be experts in both. My hat is off to the hard working Legacy INS agents who have put up with the immigration law cottage industry and INS glacier-like bureaucracy in order to try to do the right thing.
L-Customs agents: cut the L-INS guys some slack. They are good street agents who arrest lots of really bad people like gang bangers, robbers and murderers. Unfortunately all those aliens who are booted out are back again before the INS paperwork is done.
L-INS agents: are you surprised that L-USC agents don't want any part of the pretense of immigration control. The Bushies, typical politicians, want to have their cake and eat it too; to pander to the heartland and to the immigrant community at the same time.
One example of the difference in our laws: someone caught twice smuggling 30 lbs of marijuana across the border will do at least two years in prison after being caught a second time. An alien caught a second time for entering after being deported will be released to be caught a 3rd, 4th, and a 5th time.
Split us up and spend lots of time and $ fixing the INS system so that those guys can actually do the job they are suppose to do. Let Customs agents go back to making the quality criminal cases that challenge the FBI and DEA monopolies.
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9049
Fifteen years ago we used to drive across town to share information and informants or lend assistance to each other before we had the authorization to do so. At times we would join in each others operations to be able to share our lawful authorities. Now we just cross the hall to each others office or go to the conference room to accomplish the same. Those of us who were investigating illegal arms shipments, fraud, alien smuggling, or human trafficking are probably still doing that. The truth is most of us either have never or will never investigate real high level cases. We will check jails and public housing to remove criminals from our midst or swapmeets and flea markets to remove the illegal competition of counterfiet gucci bags from our economy. Somethings were easier in the past but a lot of things are easier now. In two or three more years morale will be much better. Many of us old timers will be retired. Many of the cry baby legacy this or thats will be gone also. They will have talked themselves out of the best career they ever had. The DHS Office of Investigations, whether it is under ICE or CBP, will be stronger and more mature. We are now acting like a child in its terrible twos throughing ourselves on the floor and flopping around like a fish out of water when things do not go the way they "use to go". Even though Mr. Clark sounded rude to some when he suggested that we either get on board or look for another job, he was right. Most of us who who have worked the rail yards at some time in our careers have seen what happens to a person who falls from a moving box car onto the rails. Let's get safely on board the Office of Investigation train now and quit stressing over things that are not in our immediate power to change. Do not let our self generated stress grind up us, our families and our careers. May God bless America and grant us the patience to endure to better times.
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8910
"Nobody asked, nor wanted, this merger but this is what we have and, as my cohort in Knoxville eluded to, we should try to make it work in spite of its short-comings. There's not a lot of falsehood in what I said; cannot it not be said that there's a lot of falsehood in what you say? After all, how much do you know about what legacy INS Agents do aside from the mistruths you've been fed by your agency?"
First off, not once have I ever pretended to know anything about what legacy INS agents do, nor have I ever insulted their work or expertise. And I strongly disagree with those who do. So once again, what you have said is false. And just as I don't have an accurate understanding of your job, the previous post you wrote about your impression of Customs makes it very clear that you don't have an accurate understanding of mine.
And accepting things as they are rather than speaking up against it is not a solution, as things now are unacceptable and much worse than they used to be. My problem with the merger has nothing to do with I&NS agents, it has to do with the incompatibility of I&NS and Customs agents and the destruction of Customs. If you want to criticize those who insult legacy I&NS and Customs agents specifically, I agree. But all I've done is speak up against the merger, and I'm right.
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8908
In response to the SA who replied to my previous posting by stating that, "This is a statement from a man who doesn't have the first clue about anything Customs agents did.", the overtone of my original response was in reaction to being labeled as "incompetent", "illiterate", and the like. I take great offense to that and to other monikers that have been placed by people like him and yourself. I have worked with Customs SA's in the past and now...there are some great people there and I have enjoyed both working with them and learning from them, as they have from my side. Nobody asked, nor wanted, this merger but this is what we have and, as my cohort in Knoxville eluded to, we should try to make it work in spite of its short-comings. There's not a lot of falsehood in what I said; cannot it not be said that there's a lot of falsehood in what you say? After all, how much do you know about what legacy INS Agents do aside from the mistruths you've been fed by your agency? Soldier up and get with the program.
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8896
The legacy INS agents who have responded to this and other similar articles are being a little too defensive, and have taken to bashing legacy Customs agents as "whiners", etc. This doesn't help the situation at ICE, and isn't constructive. The truth is that INS and Customs were very different agencies, especially when it came to investigations. Putting them together was like trying to fit square pegs into round holes, or combining oil and vinegar - they just don't mix. They never have, and never will, because the jobs are so different. The sooner people face up to this fact, the better we'll all be. Let's save the potshots for those who truly deserve them, namely, the morons who came up with the concept of ICE in the first place, who knew nothing about the agencies affected, or what they did. Then, to compound their mistake, these ignoramuses also placed FPS and FAMS, which are not investigative agencies, into ICE, for some unknown reason, and sent the Air and Marine Divison away to CBP.
Let's try to fix this mess, either through a merger with CBP or through some other means, and save our mutual disgust and contempt for those who misled Congress and the American people, when they created the monstrosity called ICE. Regardless of our respective backgrounds, we all know who the real enemies are, and they aren't legacy INS or Customs!
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8880
"As far as our promotion to GS/13-14, that's been a long time coming, seeing that we do far more extensive work than you people who seem to have the uncanny ability to milk a case for 2 or 3 years that can be done in 6 months. Complex investigations beyond our grasp? You wouldn't know what complex is, being that you spend 3/4 of your time filling out TECS ROI and SEACATS reports brimming with psycho-babble as to impress your superiors and mask the fact that you really haven't done anything except make a few phone calls an run a check or two."
This is a statement from a man who doesn't have the first clue about anything Customs agents did. Every single statement made above is absolutely false. If you want to attack the other side of the house, which I won't do, it's probably a good idea to rely mostly on facts.
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8874
It is sad that after all this time we still hear this whining about this merger. The INS had its problems and, whether they admit it or not, so did Customs. If Customs merged with the FBI, DEA, or any other federal agency they would still be whining. I am legacy INS with over 21 years experience in federal law enforcement. I am sure Customs had some fine investigators but I have met very few of them. Many of them complain constantly about how INS did not do REAL investigations and how lucky we were. They had no problem with Customs giving a street hire a GS-13 after four years "experience". I now know what that experience consisted of. My experience is that Customs cases are mostly report writing about other agency arrests and seizures. The big push right now is trying to seize unlicensed NASCAR t-shirts. How is that more important to homeland security than removing criminal aliens from the interior of the US? Regarding ICE being run by legacy INS management - this deception is easily proven false. Any ICE organizational chart will show a very small minority of supervisors are legacy INS. Without Group Supervisors it is an even smaller minority. INS was recognized by US Attorneys for maintaining one of the highest conviction rates of all federal agencies. Most AUSA's have never met a legacy customs agent - much less handled a criminal prosecution for one. Many Customs agents were in a cult and now that the object of their worship, Bonner, is gone - they don't know what to do. A good start would be to grow up, stand up, and get to work. Most legacy INS Agents put our heads down and went into the merger trying to do the best we could with what we had. I hope most legacy Customs agents did the same. Sending all the legacy Customs agents back to CBP might be a good thing after all. They'd be happier, we'd be happier, and more real work might get done. I do not hate my legacy Customs counterparts. I actually looked forward to the reorganization and creation of ICE. Unfortunately, my hopes for a "better" agency have failed. ICE should not be split again but should be made to work as a better, more efficient, and more effective agency. This "legacy" agency mentality is not helping and it must be stopped. In the words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?"
ICE Senior Special Agent Knoxville, Tennessee
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8845
In response to the egotistical, condescending legacy Customs Special Agent who seems to feel that we legacy INS Special Agents are undertrained, overpaid underachievers, I submit that you step down off your high horse and partake of a slab of humble pie. As far as asking any FBI or AUSA Office their opinion of our abilities, in the Eastern District of Tennessee they hold us in high regard and consider us hard-charging, knowledgeable, dedicated agents who are thorough in our investigative duties and our reports. My partner and I are both legacy INS SA's and former Border Patrol Agents with a combined 50 years of experience. We didn't need to go to CIS school at Glynco because we already knew how to conduct investigations and prosecute aliens through our duties on the border. Where do you come off by eluding to the idea that the White House put us "underachievers" with you "legends in your own minds" to improve our professionalism? As far as our purported "unprofessional and incompetent" level of performance, my partner and I were both recognized by the U.S. Attorney's Office, Eastern District of Tennessee, with awards for our outstanding work in the successful prosecution of of numerous criminal aliens in our area of jurisdiction. As far as our promotion to GS/13-14, that's been a long time coming, seeing that we do far more extensive work than you people who seem to have the uncanny ability to milk a case for 2 or 3 years that can be done in 6 months. Complex investigations beyond our grasp? You wouldn't know what complex is, being that you spend 3/4 of your time filling out TECS ROI and SEACATS reports brimming with psycho-babble as to impress your superiors and mask the fact that you really haven't done anything except make a few phone calls an run a check or two. The bottom line to all this is: 1) you aren't as great as you've convinced yourself of, 2) there are many professional and hard-working agents on both sides of this issue whho want to do the job right, andlast, but not least, 3) legacy INS SA's CAN write English and quite well and don't need a college degree to do it. There are a lot of people with BA's and MBA's that would screw up a 2 car parade...there's a lot to be said about EXPERIENCE!
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8792
I feel I must express my opinion on the ICE/CBP merger. My opinion, a right granted under the Constitution, is based on 18 years as a legacy US Customs Special Agent and will not include "mud slinging" upon my legacy INS Special Agent brethern. It is based upon my experiences, observations and conversations with a variety of individuals.
ICE and CBP should be merged IMMEDIATELY, and here's why; BUDGET: The ICE budget is a mess! Are we paying the bills for other BTS components and not getting repaid or are we repeating the same budgeting "errors"? In the first few months of FY 05, some offices had "doom and gloom" meetings, where they were told that ICE didn't have enough money and that we might have to turn off cell phones and beepers and start parking government cars. We were having trouble scrounging up Fed Ex envelopes and copier paper.
LACK OF MISSION: ICE HQ took several weeks to come up with a mission statement. Isn't this something someone should have thought about in the planning stages? ICE is the "investigative arm" of DHS in its mission to protect, detect and prevent attacks upon the homeland. This couldn't be further from the truth. The FBI, DEA and other Federal, state and local agencies step all over us.
IDENTITY: Legacy Special Agents are still carrying their old badges. We were promised new badges and credentials some time ago. Its embarrassing it is to identify yourself as a DHS or ICE agent (as we were told to do), but your identification says something else?
SHARED SYSTEMS: CBP got the IT. ICE is treated as a"third party" when they need to get information from CBP which is necessary to do an investigation. Intell, payroll and procurement were split when they could have just as well stayed as one.
PERSONNEL: ICE has been under a hiring freeze for the past two years and experienced personnel are leaving en masse. Doesn't that tell you something?
MORALE: This is just about non-existent. CBP has its annual awards ceremony to recognize outstanding achievements. Due to the mess that ICE is in, we do not.
I could go on and on, but space does not allow it. The HQ "spin doctors" will continue to tell everyone that we are doing just fine and FY 05 will be rough (another $300 million should help). I encourage you to continue contacting your elected representives and express your opinion.
Senior Special Agent Legacy US Customs/NYC
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8790
Legacy Customs: Stop attacking legacy INS and assuming you have a clue about their activities. Unless you used to work as an INS agent, you don't have a firm understanding of the cases they work and the experience they have. Contrary to popular belief, they DO work criminal cases, and immigration law is extremely complex. Also contrary to popular belief, the faults in our enforcement of immigration law is not due to INS agents, but to our lawmakers who have all but crippled our ability to control our borders and deport illegal aliens. An INS agent responding to every single call received from a state/local over one or two illegal aliens would be equivalent to a Customs agent responding to every single call received for one marijuana joint or counterfeit watch. It would be logistically impossible to respond to absolutely everything, especially with virtually nothing to gain.
Legacy INS: Stop attacking legacy Customs. Only a fraction of Customs cases (mostly drugs) are referred to agents from the inspectors, and even with drug-cases, much of the investigative work is initiated proactively by the agents. Stop referring to them as whiners for being upset at the destruction of Customs when you never had experience working for that agency, and stop judging every Customs agent by someone in a fraud group (which is only a tiny fraction of what Customs investigates) you may have had a bad experience with in the past. Stop assuming you know anything about Customs, especially when it had one of the highest retention rates of any agency, whereas the I&NS had one of the highest attrition rates and lowest hiring standards. And stop complaining about the "lowering of training standards" with your merger into ICE when it was the INS who never required its agents to attend the Criminal Investigator Training Program.
The biggest problem about the response of so many ICE agents to this merger is that they don't have the first clue what they're talking about when they attack the other side of the house, and they all sound like a bunch of idiots doing it. If the merger was wrong, which I agree it was, it's not the fault of your counterparts. Your attacks on each other will do nothing to encourage a remedy, but it will certainly give our elected officials a good reason to throw your input into the trash.
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8771
It is really sad to read about all of the bickering between Legacy INS and Customs SAs. A house divided amongst itself cannot stand. I agree with most others, we had a shot gun wedding and are now together. BUT, we can still work this out together. Having spent 11 yrs with the Border Patrol before transfering to OI, I can say that in the district that oversaw my BP Sector the policy was basically catch and release. INS SA's would not come out to our area. The standard was "take pics and fingerprints and send them to us." Every District and SAC are different. Some former INS districts were enforcers of the INA, while others were forced to succumb to "political influences." Border Patrol experiences that everyday. However, having enforced Title 8 for 11 yrs, then being exposed to the 400 plus laws customs enforces is quite overwhelming. When you mix ALL of this enforcement together, any one ICE Agent has an immense amount of power. Your PC is lowered even more, you can basically walk to somone, ask them their immigration status and take it from there, given the immense authority bestowed upon us, who could ask for more? My belief is that we need to take what is ICE and place it w/in CBP as a whole. INS and Customs SA's working together at the POE's to prosecute respective cases, as well as carrying their own cases, contrary to popular belief Customs SA's DO NOT get all of their cases from the POE's. BUT, it should not stop there, we need to be the DHS Investigative arm! We need to be the forefront agency for all investigations involving terorism. We need to take back what we lost to the FBI AND to the DEA. The way it is now, thank you asa hutchinson, we have to call dea before we take a dump. In my 13 yrs of federal law enforcement, dea was in charge of DOMESTIC narcotics smuggling. So as an ICE SA tracking smugglers from MX why should I call dea and ask their permission? The 2,000 lbs I catch on the river sure did not grow in TX, especially when the bundles are wet. But dea needs to be notified, why? So they can claim the stat? They did that to us in BP. NO! Chertoff needs to reclaim ALL of our lost authority and more if we are to effective in any way.
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8766
After reading comments by legacy INS GS/12 criminal investigators, it is easy to see why INS had to be abolished. These undertrained and overpaid immigration officers were well known throughout the government, especially within their own Department of Justice, as unprofessional and incompetent. Ask any FBI agent or Assistant U.S. Attorney their opinion of the former INS cops. The vast majority of them never attended CIS at FLETC. College degrees were not a job requirement and most worked as Inspectors or Border Patrol agents on Friday and simply became INS agents when they were issued a different badge and reported to a new office on Monday. No additional training was required or received. Unfortunately, the White House decided to merge these underachievers with legacy Customs Special Agents, with the hope of improving immigration enforcement professionalism. For two years, former Customs OI management has tried unsuccessfully to train the legacy INS investigators. Mr. Garcia upgraded them to GS/13 and GS/14 agents and group supervisors with the stroke of a pen. I suspect he had noble intentions and high hopes of turning them into professionals. Unfortunately, this attempt failed, as not even Customs agents can turn chicken feathers into chicken salad. Complex investigations and reports of investigation are beyond legacy INS grasp. While it is true that most of the former INS officers do speak Spanish, many can hardly write English. The only hope of correcting this "ICE" failure is to merge the INS agents with Detention and Removal. They can retain the ICE moniker (Immigration Criminal Enforcement). Send the Customs special agents back to CBP and a professional Office of Investigations will rise from the ashes. FPS can be merged with the Uniformed Secret Service just like the Treasury Police. FAMS should be sent back to TSA from whence they came. This will improve the morale of both the INS and CUSTOMS agents who obviously don't want to work in the same agency together. The taxpayers will be well served and the government can correct the greatest mistake it has made since prohibition.
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8765
Name a single government in history that was able to restructure itself in less than 3 years and not experience discontinuity and extreme pain? Whether you like it or not, Congress voted and created what now exists. Congress may change our agency again, but you can be sure that some will be thrilled while others fall down in severe pain from their unhappiness.
The venom spewed on this message board is sad, frightening and disappointing. Some of the hard criticism expressed on this board is warranted, but the mean spirit directed towards others by a few is unprofessional and undignified.
Both legacy agencies had their respective responsilibities under the law. Both had strong and weak points - although I have to admit that INS Investigations had more weak points than Customs. An earlier message is correct, funding and resource support makes a big difference in how an agency operates. At the same time, all that miniscule data collecting that we hate is what is needed to petition Congress for more funding.
And upper management has to be more responsive and communicative with the troops below. Any time that upper levels of management decrease or cease communications with their employees the entity is sure to fail or erupt as is now happening. ICE has not been as effective as CPB in this regard. (Heck, you wonder if upper mgt will even bother to respond to this media and public whiplashing by ICE employees.)
That being said, I do believe you can house Customs work and Immigration work under the same roof. There is an inherent link between the two concepts. Immigration law enforcement, aside from benefit fraud and smuggling, is a powerful and useful tool that should benefit any law enforcement officer when used properly.
One more thing, to allow this negative hatred and dislike to continue is going to result in an unfortunate scenario in the field. Don't let that happen. Find a way to work together or someone is going to get hurt.
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8763
You can make fun of IPR violations, such as counterfeit Gucci bags, all you want, but they affect American commerce and jobs, and represent just one of the over 400 federal laws enforced by Customs. These included investigating drug smuggling, money laundering, arms smuggling, theft of high-tech by unfriendly nations, child pornography, unsafe and dangerous imports (such as electrical appliances that cause fires, faulty aircraft spare parts, and hazardous foreign medicinals), art and antiquities smuggling, endangered species violations, etc., etc. Just because you're not proud of your legacy agency, don't knock those of us who are proud of ours. As far as Customs managers being in charge of ICE, remember whose procedures and systems we are forced to use (hint, they're not from Customs). The greatest managers in the world can't do a good job when they have garbage to work with. By the way, if INS was so great, why did thousands of INS inspectors, agents and Border Patrol officers defect to Customs over the years, while nobody from Customs went the other way?
Many of you are taking personal shots at those of us from Customs, but most of us are taking the high road, because we realize that INS was a mismanaged, underfunded agency, that was lousy to work for. That doesn't mean that those who worked there were poor law enforcement officers. In fact, you did the best you could with what you had, while burdened with foolish and misquided immigration policies forced upon you by previous administrations, Congress, and special interest groups. However, despite your best efforts, there are now over 20 million illegal aliens in this country, which combined with 9/11 led to the dissolution of INS.
Why don't we all just appreciate everyone's respective backgrounds, and then start pulling together to try to fix this mess? Let's reserve the insults for those who truly deserve them, namely, the fools who came up with this crazy idea in the first place!
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8762
Have you ever heard any complaints for not arresting someone with fake gucci bags? The simple fact is that most legacy customs agents don't speak spanish and want nothing to do with aliens. If you remove the aliens you take care of most problems, such as drugs, crimes, bulk cash smuggling, IPR, etc. ICE agents should know spanish and should be required to spend time on the border. Most legacy customs are overweight and whiners. I would rather have legacy INS agents, most were from the Border Patrol, for back-up any day. They have been there and done that. No matter what happens the legacy INS agents are used to getting the job done with no help from upper management. All I have to say to Customs agents is waaaaaaaaaaaa.....
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8753
To merge CBP with ICE for any of the reasons delineated thus far is analogous to open-heart surgery for a sore throat. Competent leadership/management would not only have prevented these issues, but can resolve them. Should these two agencies have been created seperate and subordinate to that unnecessary bureaucratic layer called BTS? No. But that decision was made more than two years ago and has caused much of this turmoil. Will more bureaucratic shuffling solve most of our current problems? No, it will only serve to create more uncertainty, in-fighting, power-grabbing,and disruption.
Competent leadership at the DHS level, and if necessary, at the BTS level can solve communication problems. Systems issues? Guess what. DHS will be mandating changes for most legacy systems, anyhow. Mission clarity? Again, competent leadership should define the missions of both ICE and CBP and stop eroding authorities from the traditional and Homeland Security, counter-terrorism related missions. And, here's one that a merger wouldn't solve. Budget! If ICE were fully funded, many of these problems would come out from under the microscope and seem as minor as they truly are.
Should there be changes within ICE and CBP? I think many commentors here have touched upon the uneducated view that the Customs and Immigration missions were essentially the same. Blending the expertise required for both missions only waters down both. In the short term, we all bring our legacy backgrounds with us, but those backgrounds will one day attrit. Then what does that leave for the country? A Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none agent/inspector/ officer. There are some great utility infielders in Major League Baseball, but they don't win the World Series. The Homeland Security championship game has a much higher stake than a trophy.
Reallignment and definition of missions, competent leadership, effective financial management, and open communications are all effective lozenges for that sore throat. Open-heart surgery has the potential for too many complications.
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8744
Look at all the venting by various ICE personnel taking place on this message board. Yet, the folks testifying before Congress are either longtime disgruntled former employees or two Union reps. Venturella left DRO, quit ICE in a fit of disagreement, and now testifies on how to improve ICE. Mike Cutler, ex-agent from NYC, has a long history of testifying in Washington and NYC INS didn't change for years until after the creation of DHS. Union reps - how does a Union person represent the 1811 when the 1811 isn't covered by a Union? As for FLEOA, it was a sad day when Gallo stepped down. FLEOA appeared a lot more professional and responsible under his guidance. I hope Mr. Gordon realizes his mistake and doesn't face the outcome of his most immediate predecessor.
Earlier messages are correct: Congress should actively seek current rank and file employees, not those approved by management, for input on the day to day issues encountered by agents.
Either way, ICE and CBP are what currently exist. Old INS and Old Customs no longer exist. Deal with it. 200yrs of history says that politics overrides commonsense and a focus on mission. If change needs to be made, then perhaps for the first time in a long while Congress and the Executive Branch will create an organization that completely ignores old turf lines and deals with the job needing to be done rather than the protection of someone's job for the sake of a vote. Maybe a restructure is in order. But until then, I've got my current job to do and that's what the American people expect. Not constant whining and pointing of fingers. Customs agent, INS agent, who cares? The states and locals, as well as the American people, would rather know that you'll help when the call comes in rather than shift responsibility to someone else.
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8742
Merging ICE and CBP is a good option, but not the best. In my opinion, ICE needs to be turned into the DHS Office of Investigations. DHS OI would respond as the Criminal Investigative arm of DHS to any of the threats, seizures, crises etc. that arise from the different entities in DHS. DHS OI would be elevated to the Undersecretary level rather than buried in the bureaucracy. The agency would combine 1811s from all the Agencies, including Secret Service. They would investigate all matters to include threats to airlines, counterfeiting, threats to federal buildings, drug smuggling, alien smuggling, money laundering, strategic, etc. Of course FBI would immediately squash this, but in my mind the thought of this one day becoming reality keeps me coming to work every day, because I am as miserable as all the other Legacy Customs Agents that were once part of a first rate agency.
ICE SS/A South Florida
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8741
My cousin was a legacy INS agent before he joined Customs (now ICE). All he did was complain about INS management, the lack of money, the lack of promotions, and the overall poor work envioronment. His biggest gripe was the RACISM in INS. INS Agents referred to themselves as garbage collectors. When he came over to legacy Customs, he was real happy about his new assignments. He worked mostly drug smuggling cases. He did lots of undercover and considered Customs a better place to work. Just after the merger of INS and Customs he was assigned to work immigration cases. Recently he quit to join the State Department rather than go back and work immigration cases. Immigration work is among the worst jobs there is in law enforcement. Customs agent don't aspire to be INS. That is the reason why they joined Customs. DEA agents become DEA agents because they want to work drug cases. I don't think it's a secret that legacy INS agents were abused, degraded and paid less by their own agency for doing work that no one else wanted to do. INS can not blame legacy Customs for their poor career choices. Legacy Customs can not be angry at INS for having to work immigration cases.There is NO MORE CUSTOMS! ICE is now INS. With the same poor management, low morale, lack of money, and eventually less pay than the DEA, ATF or the FBI. Three years from now we will be doing 90% immigration cases. I would hope that legacy INS and legacy Customs stop fighting among themselves. Calling each other childish names degrades everyone in ICE. The real problem is the ICE management which include legacy Customs and INS. As long as Asa Hutchinson and other former DHS employees get lucrative jobs in the private sector to represent contractors doing bussiness with DHS, problems such as the disastorous INS/Customs merger will continue to happen. The INS/Customs merger wasn't an accident by misinformed inexperienced dim-wits. INS contractors were a big part of this. Wake up everybody it's all about who has control of the billion dollar DHS contracts. The CBP/ICE merger will only happen if it has a positive impact on the contractors making money off of ICE. If the contractors like it ($$$$), they will lobby their congressmen to make it happen. If they don't ICE will remain a stand alone agency.
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8737
I can't help but notice a recurring theme: former INS Agents take a personal attack approach and refer to former Customs Agents as "whiners," "prima donnas," and poor investigators who can't function without their former colleagues, the Inspector. They say former Customs Agents should shut up and accept the merger - get back to work. Former Customs Agents sometimes refer to INS Agents in a bad light, but are usually focused upon getting the job done. They don't like the mismanagement (even by their own) and seem to want a more cohesive organization. They see the damage to the mission of both agencies that was done by this merger, the separation of the "uniformed and the detectives."
What is it that we, collectively as ICE really want? Do we want the current mismanaged, dysfunctional, financially crippled agency we have now just because it was forced upon us? OR do we want to be a part of a prestigious, respected, efficient agency in DHS that we all feel we deserve? We only get the latter with a merger.
The non-political appointees at the top of ICE have placed all their eggs in one basket. If we merge, they are bound to lose some of their precious turf. They have curried favor to many by taking advantage of the lack of structure in ICE and don't want to face the consequences of answering to someone who may have a clue about what has gone on since March 1, 2003 (of course, that would not be Mr. Garcia), or maybe more importantly, lose the throne upon which they now sit.
Don't forget ICE management's take, either. If you don't like this job, then perhaps you should seek other employment. Well, Mr. Clark, many have and many will take your advice. If that's your management tool to a solution to this issue, then shame on you! At least we know how management feels about our concerns.
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8733
Wow - nice remarks from our former INS brothers. My experience in dealing with many legacy INS offices has been disappointing. Many cases could not be worked because INS agents apparently do not work past 5 pm or on weekends. This is fact - from a Newark group Supervisor with legacy INS who refused to work a case after 5 pm or on a Saturday when we had to send our own folks up there to do the work. So, with this kind of work ethic, no wonder Customs does not want anything to do with these "Special Agents." Customs is used to working 'complex' cases that may last years involving complex financial investigations or weapons brokers. How many INS agents have spent months or years brokering arms deals with foreign terrorists or conducting complex money laundering investigations? Its the simple fact that INS agents (for the most part) can not, or refuse to do the work but want to get the same pay.
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8728
Someone, somewhere is laughing their a** off over this whole ICE mess.
I am legacy Customs, and I was talking to a legacy FPS agent today. He was telling me how the new ICE firearms policy was something shoved down their throat by Customs. Having some knowledge on this, I pointed out that our new course of fire was nothing like the legacy Customs program, and he was confused. He was sure it was our fault. Nope.
This same dynamic is playing itself out in the battle between legacy agencies on this page. Legacy Customs sees serious problems with ICE, so the presume they are the fault of legacy INS. Legacy INS sees the situation in reverse. Both feel that they have been taken over by the other (and smaller players like FPS and the FAMS probably hold similar views).
Are you ready for the truth? It will blow you away... No one took the legacy agencies of ICE over. We were just a bunch of legacy agency components that no one had any real idea what to do with, so they threw us all into a "box" and called us ICE. Feeling the need to blame someone for our misfortune, we blame eachother.
The sad fact is that if anyone is to blame it is the knuckleheads who put INS, Customs, FPS and FAMS in the "ICE box" and thought they would naturally merge together into a coherent agency. All have different jurisdictions, different corporate cultures, different outlooks, etc.
We should not be fighting with eachother - we should gang up and go after the politians who did this to us. The bastards!
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8727
I do not know whether ICE and CBP will be merged, but I do know that the people most affected by it, the working field agents for ICE, will have the least input. That is a shame, since they have the most to lose (or gain) by the decisions made in Washington. No one would ever think to ask our suggestions on how things could be better, and boy, could they be better. I would hope whatever decisions are made, management will take into account what is best for the working agent, not their own best interests. I would also like peace in the Middle East. Wonder which will happen first?
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8726
"If turmoil is erupting, it may be for good reason-the chickens of legacy INS' ineptitude and mala fides have finally come home to roost."
Give me a break!!! Let me remind all those Customs agents complaining and let's set the record straight. The TOP of ICE is CLARK, FOREMAN, & LANG. CUSTOMS, CUSTOMS, & CUSTOMS. There are only three (3) legacy INS SACs in ICE, the rest are Customs. Garcia doesn't run ICE, never did!! Clarke runs operations, Garcia is merely a figure head. If you don't believe me, then you have never been to HQ. None of the three would even make it in the top executive hierarchy under Bonner's shop. I haven't heard anyone from legacy INS not wanting to merge with CBP. It is the most logical, no more turf battles with the Port Directors or the BP Sector chiefs and we get air and marine back. I'm glad we merged with legacy INS investigations, the authority is awesome.
Those agents that are complaining are the few that not only will not, but CANNOT use their new powers to benefit their own cases!! I agree that ICE is a mess, but do not blame it on the legacy INS agents, they are not and NEVER were at the top positions in ICE. DHS decided that CBP would take the legacy Customs administrative accounting system and ICE would get INS's, no one in ICE wanted it that way. Those agents complaining do not know any facts, as usual. Every agency has them. We will be put under CBP that is a done deal. They will be back on this board complaining again about CBP.
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8723
Art Gordon has used "inaccurate statements" (known to most 1811's as lies) to stab fellow 1811's in the back.
Integrity (Merriam-Websters) = firm adherence to a code of esp moral or artistic values, INCORRUPTIBILITY, an unimpaired condition, SOUNDNESS, the quality or state of being complete or undivided, COMPLETENESS, see also "honesty." SO ART used lies to impugn fellow 1811's of legacy INS. He not only shames FELOA, he shames all 1811's and has no place as an individual to be an 1811.
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8721
It was Congress that created this mess called DHS/ICE. You expect Congress and politicians to fix the problem with a merger of ICE to CBP through further hearings? I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If Congress can screw things up further, they will with this further merger mania.
One possible solution; allow Legacy Customs Investigations to go to CBP (along with your antiquated and user unfriendly DOS based TECS II and SEACATS ) and transfer the Legacy INS Investigations with Detention & Removal and Border Patrol into one cohesive enforcement unit. Perhaps I can once again go out in the field and arrest law violators and conduct criminal investigations without having to waste half of my day typing the same redundant report three times in TECS to please some number crunching upper manager at the SAC Office.
This will allow once again a specialization of skills and investigative talent to remain with Customs and Immigration enforcement respectively.
How can people complain about INS ( Legacy managers )being in charge of ICE when 80 % or greater of ASACS and SACS are Legacy Customs ; someone must have flunked math on their way through College or Im missing it somewhere.
Second point, Legacy INS Investigations doesnt lay claim to Michael Garcia either; Garcia took over the INS reigns for only a matter of a few months when former INS Commissioner James Zigler quit in disgrace.
My neighborhood stray dog knew more about INS law than Mike Garcia did before the merger, so please dont label Garcia as former INS baggage, we did not like him either as acting Commissioner, just like we dont care for him in ICE!
I hope some members of Congress, especially those in the Homeland Security committee read some of these postings in lieu of their typical coktail circuit on Capital Hill after work.
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8719
Former INS training policies and requirements have been lowered to meet those of Customs. We made our firearms qualification course easier, no Spanish in Glynco, and we've lowered our use of force training. All this because of Customs. INS trained hard because we were the ones doing the true street work/arrests, stats can prove that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but to be reach the status of an elite law enforcement agency does not equate to lowering training standards? Maybe because Customs agents are all knowing they don't need to train as much, yeah right!!
Although I don't condone the bashing of agencies, you can only read and hear so much before you have to start speaking up and looking at the facts. I only wish the solution was an easy one.
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8717
The arguments against what has transpired under the Homeland Security reorganization, and the points made about the negative results, are absolutely clear. Those who disagree that a mistake was made by destroying the U.S. Customs Service were most likely never employed there as a special agent, or at least not employed there for any significant time period prior to its destruction. This is not an INS vs Customs issue. It's an issue of one of the best agencies in government that was wrongfully dismantled, with very negative results. You can't call legacy Customs agents "whiners" or "cry-babies" when you don't know where they're coming from. There is a reason for their tremendous loyalty to their former agency, and it says an awful lot about Customs that so many of its former agents are infuriated about this. The same reaction could be expected if the FBI were split apart and merged with separate parts of some other agency. When something good is turned into something much worse, people who speak out against it are right in doing so. Tradition is often times the enemy of progress, but the loyalty to Customs is not a simple matter of tradition. It doesn't matter if Customs was around for 214 years or 10 years. It was a tremendously strong agency that only regressed once it became subject to this transition.
The INS, on the other hand, was rampant with low morale and high attrition. So the conversion to ICE by legacy INS agents, and their overwhelming acceptance of it, is understandable. Legacy INS agents are also charged with a very complex mission, and under their former agency, they were subjected to all kinds of problems due to their management structure and lack of support. So their experience in transitioning to ICE is completely different from that of former Customs agents. There is a very strong reason for the loyalty of former Customs agents to their legacy agency, and also for the lack of loyalty of former INS agents to theirs.
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8716
WHAT INVESTIGATIONS!? So I guess anytime a patrol officer rolls up on a homicide, the detective is just thrown the case and they really don't do any investigation? Customs worked like a PD in that the Inspectors caught the case at the port, then the agents built it from there.
Look, let's be honest here. The majority of stuff the Legacy INS guys do is jail cases. Not much to it and don't try and dress it up. Now, the other cases dealing with human smuggling and slavery are good cases. Fun to work if we had the money to do them.
I have no problem working with legacy INS guys. My beef, and the majority of the other people complaining, is not with the agents. It's with the fools running this show and the systems and policies they are implementing. They should be stoned in the streets for what they've done.
As for the other legacy INS guys calling us former Customs agents whiners, we don't meekly lie down and take it from the six. I can't tell you how many times I've spoken with legacy INS guys telling me everybody should just shut up and go do the job-perhaps this attitude helped in the destruction of your previous agency when your managers were running it into the ground. Tell me-what is our job? Did you get a clearly defined mission from HQ or our fearless leader? Not to mention our foggy mission is steadily decreasing thanks to other agencies patiently hovering like vultures.
You people need to realize, this agency has been set up to take the fall when the Bureau screws up again. Have you ever wondered why our news releases still state we conduct counter-terror investigations? How many ICE agents do you know that are currently working meaningful counter-terror cases in your office (and I don't mean JTTF stuff where we are just running people through our systems for the Bureau)? This agency was created as a buffer for the Bureau to shield it from the next disaster waiting to happen.
Oh, and concerning the merger, let it happen. Where is the logic having seperate border and interior enforcement? Any idiot can see they are connected. Merge us with CBP, legacy INS and legacy Customs all.
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8715
Math Logic? Let's see..'If the premise is false, the conclusion will also be false', or something like that. Retired after working at JFK airport for fifteen years, I can only wonder what the future holds. Immigration, Customs, Agriculture, the Coast Guard all have separate jobs to do. Now, with the ridiculous DHS agency blender going at high speed, even the ICE team members will be sucked in and pureed like the rest of us!If you try to cross-breed a dog, a cat, and several hamsters, the result will have none of the good qualities of each species, and will be darn ugly...Better communication yes, "one face at the border', NO!
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8714
To the legacy INS S/A's calling the Customs Agents whiners take off the rose colored glasses. INS S/A's were not going to get their 13s prior to the merger because too much focus was on admin. investigations instead of criminal. The ADDI's were given bonuses based on the number of aliens they deported not on the number of criminal prosecutions. If INS was such a great place to work why did it have the highest attrition rate of any agency in the government? As to the misconception that Customs agents get all their cases from Inspectors, stop being ignorant. Yes, some LEADS do come from the inspectors. As with all leads, they require follow-up in order to bring it to prosecution. Let's look at what the INS S/A's had prior to the merger: no case tracking database, informants were rarely paid, took months to get reimbursed for travel, DRO and Exams received more priority than investigations.
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8711
Let's face facts, and stop the name calling. INS and Customs agents had difficult jobs before this merger, and still do. There are those who welcome a civil war in the ranks, because by blaming things on "disgruntled legacy agents", they can avoid answering the real questions about what is wrong with ICE. The reason why so many are speaking out (which we all have a right to do - this IS America) is because there are real issues involved here that need to be addressed.
The creation of DHS was a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11. The decision to merge INS and Customs agents together in ICE was foolish, and did nothing to make this country safer, as both had very different jobs, jurisdiction, training, experience, administrative and computer systems, etc. Why not also merge the FBI with Postal Inspectors, or the DEA with IRS, or the Secret Service with ATF, or elephants with alligators? Any of these moves would have made about as much sense. That being said, if ICE is here to stay, it is in everyone's interest to try to make it better than the mess it has become, and that means speaking out when we see something wrong. That is what I intend to keep doing, and if some of you think everything is wonderful, and want to call me a whiner, go ahead, I can take it. But remember that those who sit idly by while injustice occurs are as guilty as the perpetrators of that injustice, for not speaking out when they could have, to change things for the better.
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8709
This merger needs to be done and quickly. The Legacy portion of our pasts needs to be removed from any type of communications. We all have had our careers and futures changed once ICE was created but, stop whining. Have some character and professionalism. We all must adapt for the benefit of this organization. This is coming from a guy who was hired by both former agencies and let me tell you each had their own problems. Change the name on the door and consolidate our resources quickly.
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8708
As ill conceived as it sounds, maybe an ICE-CBP merger will finally do the impossible. It may just stop the incessant whining and crying from the legacy Customs crybabies about their beloved Customs service. Before ICE was even formed the lamentations began from these pampered, arrogant prima donnas. The fact of the matter is, these Customs whiners got a look at how much work is involved in enforcing Immigration Law and they wanted no part of it from the beginning. They'd rather spent 8 months working on a case involving some moron who wants to smuggle in a shipment of pirated PlayStation 2 games. They get slapped on the back by their politician SAIC, go golfing together and then they get promoted. Gee, that's protecting America.
Legacy Customs agents have gotten a taste of what legacy INS employees have known for years. We've been given a mandate but we've never been given the resources to do the job. Go ahead, merge ICE and CBP. It will give these Customs folks exactly what they've wanted. The old Customs Service back together again with an annoying Immigration Enforcement mission that won't get done.
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8707
From reading the other responses I am truly saddened to see that this issue has returned us to the continuing battle between legacy INS and legacy USCS. We need to get over this part and not let this issue be so divisive. It is NOT about who was who or who was better! It is about the idea that the agency needs a well defined mission with focus and direction and working administrative systems. In the larger scope of things it has to do with the best option for making us functional in federal law enforcement. When we as an agency have to have MOU's within our own department and even worse within our own AGENCY to get things done and to get decisions made...it is time for an adjustment. When we cannot conduct follow up investigations on violations discovered by CBP officers, without be treated as though we are not on the same team again ...it is time for an adjustment.
It seems that the best analogy given so far is that of a police department and its patrol and investigative functions having two separate sets of bosses. This makes no sense and does not work. If it did you would see it in place around the country, but you dont!
Therefore ideas advocating the re-separation of Immigration duties from those of Customs duties would only re-create what was.
Practically speaking the placement of the Investigations, Intel and D&R into the CBP house with a single HR system, a single administration and fiscal system, single mission priorities, would create a single agency dedicated to further the battle against those who choose to violate the immigration and customs laws. Should that occur all parts of the machine would be in place to make it whole and operate as it should. Otherwise we are just parts scattered around on the ground none really able to do successfully do what they are supposed to do. I feel that was the whole itent when they created DHS in the first place.
No offense to the FAMS and FPS, but they should be placed elsewhere within DHS as an interior security not investigative division.
So please, lets stop the same old complaints about we were better and they got special treatment and on and on. It is old news!!! How about trying to band together as a team and getting what is best for ALL of US and the PUBLIC.
ICE G/S, Texas
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8706
Actually the only people that want to be merged with CBP are the former Customs Agents. And it's kind of funny in a sad way, that since the merger, it's been the Customs Agents doing all the whining. The legacy INS folks, accepted the merger and moved on. And before anyone says, "well you got your 13s out of it" the Service was already moving towards the upgrades. Oh yes, something to ponder, the INS Agents made cases and prosecutions without having to rely upon the Inspectors tossing them a case.
And think about this, the current Director of ICE is a legacy Customs manager!! Merging is not really the answer [it will place invesigations into a subservient position] , getting our authority back from every other agency, especially the FBI, actually defining our agency, and appointing a definite agency head [and not a lawyer, because lawyers have no backbones and they screw things up]
So the time has come to stop whining, suck it up, get over it, and move on!
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8705
Great, another article blaming former INS managers for the ICE mess. Can anybody name all the former INS managers at the top of the ICE food chain that are in charge? And Garcia doesn't count. He wasn't in INS long enough to be "tainted" with the INS mis-management stigma. Another snow job by ex-Customs Special Agents.
Legacy INS Group Sup.
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8703
I am not surprised at all that there is still a cultural war raging between Customs and INS legacy employees. When will this government realize that employees are not robots you can just move around the board with no examination of cultural, organizational, and employee relations issues.
And now the talk is additional reorganizations and merging of various programs.
The underlying problem to all of this is that HR lost its seat at the table years ago when CFO/admin officers took over. Until HR becomes a strategic partner with program managers on these reorganizations, rather than simnply implement the decisions already made, and work help agencies work through the cultural and other human differences- these wars are going to erupt over every single reorganization both large and small.
We see this clearly in HR but have no voice or organizational umph left across the federal government to help work through the problems. And the Chief Human Resource Officer committee at OPM really can't help- because most of them aren't even human resource professionals.
Private sector reorganizations work only when HR- both employee relations and OD are involved early on in the construction of the new organizations. I'm just sorry that the government handles these differently.
HR Specialist
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8700
It is pretty evident that the sympathetic source for this story is legacy Customs. A more uncooperative, arrogant bunch of people, more hidebound, hierarchy oriented, centralization fixated, is hard to imagine. This whole merger was poorly conceived, poorly executed, and the underlying problems were never addressed, leading to deep divisions that will last for generations of workers. Good job there folks.
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8699
The best way to remedy this situation is:
1) Keep Customs Special Agents and Immigration Special Agents seperate under the Dept. of Homeland Security, i.e. Customs Enforcment and Immigration Enforcement branches under DHS. This way, you have Special Agents who are proficient and expertise in their particular field.
OR:
1) Return INS to its former organizational structure, but keep enforcement and benefits seperate under DHS, i.e. Immigration Enforcement(Special Agents, Immigration Inspectors, Border Patrol), Immigration Benefits (Examiners, info counter) AND
2) Return Customs to its former organizational structure, but keep the Special Agents and Customs Inspectors under Enforcement under DHS. They didn't have a benefits section.
The new ICE Agents graduate from the academy without learning Spanish. It use to be a mandatory part of the INS IOBTC curriculum. How are the NEW ICE agents going to deal with Spanish-speaking individuals when enforcing the Immigration Laws??? Spanish is a necessity to all ICE agents and inspectors because ICE agents and inspectors all over the U.S. deal with the illegal Spanish population, as well as, with Hispanic people seeking Immigration benefits and entry into the U.S. The Hispanic population of the U.S. is the number one minority now. We, in the DHS need to be able to deal with it on a one on one situation.
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8696
I believe it his hard for people to admit they are wrong. It is impossible to admit they are wrong for a person once their career has brought them into the SES or Under-Secretary level. Mistakes are made by human beings, although they do not believe they are human. When you have synchophant workers under you pandering and telling you what you want to hear, it kind of clouds the facts and you can't see what is actually going on through all of the BS. If these Capitol Hill committees will bring in actual rank and file, CBP Field Ops personnel and ICE OI personnel, from larger duty stations, they will hear how operations are siginificantly impacted by the split. What would happen in your local police department if you put a wall up between the Detectives and the Uniform Officers? As an aside - FPS/FAMS do not belong involved with ICE, maybe DHS, but not ICE.
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8686
A merger is not the solution, but in the absence of any real direction for the future, a certain longing for the past is understandable. ICE is experiencing so many problems, because we have yet to be given any kind of real identity or focused homeland security mission. To do so would help the agency enormously. A few problems expeienced to date:
- Two years after the creation of ICE, we are still legacy INS or Customs agents. Just look at our badges and credentials.
- ICE has yeilded all homeland security functions it might take on to the FBI. Despite ICE possessing seaport, airport and land border investigative groups, it has no intelligence or counter-terrorism functions. DHS has no plan for critical infrastructure protection, but they have 5000+ armed officers who have nothing to protect.
- ICE has yet to gain a true DHS mission or new DHS jurisdiction. New enforcement jurisdiction would begin the creation of something that was neither legacy INS or Customs, but something completely new.
- There has been no attempt to "manage" the merger that is the subject of so much rancor. A shot gun marriage is not the same as a merger.
- In a recent study, GAO noted that, based on private sector experience, they expected the disruption caused by the reorganization leading to ICE and CBP to reduce effectiveness, efficiency and morale for 5-7 years. Then why re-organize in the midst of an acute national security crisis?
- Management has not sought any input from the field agents on how to best accomplish the merger at hand. They have been told "all is well," and random assignments have been made. Management has forgotten that the work of the agency is done by the workers, not management.
- DHS issued a 460+ page National Response Plan dealing with terrorism response. ICE appeared in three "footnotes." The FBI was a main character.
Oh, we could go on and on, but what is the point?
Returning to CBP is not the answer. Pulling ICE out of BTS and turning it into a DHS-wide investigative body is the answer. Sadly, no one seems to be looking forward, only backwards.
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8685
I don't think the problem at ICE is friction between INS and Customs agents, as this article says. I think ICE could have been successful, if ICE had better management, support from DHS HQ (and the White House), and had chosen legacy administrative systems that weren't obsolete.
For instance: The White House never backed Garcia/Hutchinson/Ridge when they tried to change ICE's name to "Investigations and Criminal Enforcement." They stood by while the FBI had its way with DHS. This is just one example, but it shows the lack of high-level support for ICE/DHS.
Also, let's face it: The move to merge CBP and ICE has been engineered by disgruntled Customs agents, and people sympathetic to Bonner at CBP (i.e. the Heritage Foundation, where Bonner has close ties). Bonner wants agents, like any agency-boss would. And Customs agents have been lobbying for a reunification since the get-go.
Customs brothers, I hear your pain, I understand your frustration. But let's call a spade a spade. You know the problem isn't your INS brothers. It's the rampant incompetance at DHS HQ.
That's the real problem with FLEOA's hand-wringing. It turns the ICE mess into a Customs v. INS fight. That's a red herrring. ALL of us guys (and gals) in the field, INS and Customs, have been the victims of this mismanagement.
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8683
As a 5 year retired Immigration Service OCDETF Agent, I was astounded at both the comments and FLEOA position (I remain a member). Every time I talk to INS Agents the word is how they have been "Customized" and how "legacy" Customs higher grades allowed, no effectively mandated management by "legacy" Customs Agents. The story is diametrically opposed to what is grumbled as reality. I would guess ferreting out the "truth" will be all but impossible.
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8678
If turmoil is erupting, it may be for good reason-the chickens of legacy INS' ineptitude and mala fides have finally come home to roost.
Secretary Chertoff: Again, ignore the comments of those who have fled DHS under the cover of darkness-Ridge, Loy, Hutchinson: all of their musings about an ICE/CBP merger not being a good idea are smoke and mirrors. Where are they now? THEY'VE QUIT, RANG THE BELL, DOR'd (apologies to the SEALs) that's what! And now, they want others to live with the consequences of actions that they implemented, but won't have to live with themselves.
Furthermore, you must do your duty, even if there is some pain involved. How does it go? "Sometimes it is better that one 'die' rather than a whole 'nation' perish"? Well, that is certainly true here. In any ICE/CBP merger, some will certainly be displaced, certainly as far as power goes (maybe not pay); it happened with many legacy Customs staff who saw promotional opportunities slip away as legacy INS managers scooped up 14s and 15s in the new ICE without competition. Nonetheless, you must see the forest through the trees and consider the good of the whole rather than just a certain few who crave power and influence.
SECRETARY CHERTOFF: YOU ARE IN CONTROL HERE; VIEW THE FACTS ON THEIR MERITS. SURELY YOU MUST SEE THAT ICE APART FROM CBP IS A FAILURE, FOR REASONS TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION HERE, BUT WHICH HAVE BEEN MENTIONED TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN MANY ARENAS BY MANY KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE. HISTORY WILL JUDGE YOU BY YOUR ACTION OR INACTION. THE CONDITIONS ARE RIGHT FOR CHANGE, SIR, AND THE TIME FOR YOU TO ACT IS NOW.
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8677
I am very disappointed that FLEOA withdrew its original letter, and softened its position on the proposed merger of ICE and CBP due to discontent among legacy INS agents. I was happy to see FLEOA finally take a position on this issue, especially since it did little to oppose the original creation of ICE, at the expense of the U.S. Customs Service, an efficient and well-run agency. The original letter contained valid points which need to be addressed, despite what ICE flack Russ Knocke says. If anyone really wants to know what is wrong with ICE, talk to the agents in the field, who have to deal with these issues daily, instead of no-nothing bureaucrats like Knocke. It's no surprise that Asa Hutchinson is against this, since he is perhaps the biggest reason why this mess was created in the first place. Also, let's not forget that Michael Garcia also stands to lose from a merger, so he is just protecting his interests, rather than doing what is right for this agency. ICE's problems have been well-documented, and a merger with CBP, while not solving everything, would be a big step in the right direction, and would noticeably improve morale, consolidate databases and administrative systems, and ease strains on the budget, among other things. In addition, ICE and CBP would once again be on the same page, to the benefit of the overall DHS mission. This merger needs to be done as soon as possible, and not studied to death!
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