Return to Article: Election reveals gap between federal union members, leaders
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7250
Poor Richard,
Don't worry about the TSA screeners. Once they get moved into the private sector next year they can unionize and fight for their pay and benefits under the NLRB process. It is all a charade that TSA screeners can't unionize for national security reasons-- and a charade that will deeply injure the federal government in the long term. Unlike the federal sector, where unions traded away some basic power for official time back in the late 1970s, once the screeners become private sector union members they have all the rights that teamsters have.
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7177
Hey procurement analyst,
My compliments to Mr. Combs on his comments. Let me add mine for your edification. I too am happy and successful in my job. The fact that you assume otherwise is a reflection on you.
I do not think you are stupid or evil. You are just one of those whiney ex-members who have nothing better to do than grind the axe. I have seen many of your comments on this website and you never miss an opportunity to gore the one group you apparently love to hate--the union and its members.
I respect those who disagree with me. Your disrespect and bitterness clearly shows. And I love the fact you resorted to the old tried and true "unions protect dead weight" argument. As many times as I have seen it in print or had it thrown in my face, I still get a good laugh. Of course, you are absolutely correct. Unions do protect dead weight. What you fail to mention is that federal unions are required by law to represent ALL bargaining unit members, including your dead weight. Unions by law are forced to be public defenders through much of the grievance process. And sometimes, when dedicated union reps do their job well, dead weight gets another chance. But you know what? If management has done their job well and followed their own guidelines, dead weight always gets fired or disciplined. We cannot save folks who are screw ups unless management screws up worse. So lets be real and place the blame for your dead weight exactly where it belongs---with management!
I will also point out that in our republic, citizens have the right to form unions without interference from management/employers. When that right is taken away, as at TSA, we all lose. Redress through the courts is the only option. Once the union choice is available to TSA employees, they will be free to join the union or not. Funny thing is, over 1000 TSA employees have already joined AFGE Local 1 in the hopes they can have a real union. I guess all those folks are really stupid or assinine in your world view.
Rather than crusading on this forum, you should join your union, get involved, and address the evils you seem to think exist. Will you do that? I doubt it. Naysayers never change things for the better.
Poor Richard
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7174
Dear Procurement Analyst Navy,
I am not unhappy with my federal job, only the right wing nut jobs who are running the executive branch and the legislative branch at the moment. I don't know what your union has been doing while you were ordering $100.00 toilet seats, but I have been at my agency for 29 years and during that time, my union has negotiated for us, flextime, credit hours, decent pay raises, locality pay, and many other benefits which attempt to bring this job in parity with private sector jobs. Now the rightwing nut job political appointees who run my agency are trying to take all those benefits away from us in the current contract negotiations. They are trying to turn back the clock and take away all the hard won benefits our union has won for us over the years. I have served the public during the tenure of two Democratic Presidents and four Republican Presidents and I can tell you that this current anti-worker administration is the worst I have ever seen by far. I don't know about you but as a working man I prefer a government that is friendly to working people. If you are happy with things as they are, God bless you, but when you lose all your benefits that your union has secured for you, don't come crying to me; you'll get no sympathy. I'll be too busy trying to scratch out a living on my Republican reduced pension and praying that the pendulum of history will swing away from the right wing kooks in power now and that our nation returns to sanity.
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7169
Shalanski is right. The magazine is "Government Executive," not "Federal Union Steward," after all. The Wall Street Journal has a bias too.
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7160
When I think of Unions, I can't help but think of wonderful things like auto assembly line workers making $50,000+ a year doing a monotonous, repetitious job like putting tires on a car. I think of how the cost of cars has skyrocketed in years due to the benefits the unions have scared the automakers into. I think of Teamsters and other unions berating, attacking with mob mentality those who dare to cross a picket line because they're not union and have to work to put food on their tables. It's sickening. Unions at one point in history were good for this country...that was before all the crime and corruption that permeates them at all levels. Unions have ruined many a company. For an example...look at Delta Airlines. Delta used to be non-union...was flourishing. Now, it's a shell of itself because the pilots' union and others have raped it. That's my opinion...and we're all entitled to one. If AFGE and the other government affiliated unions wanted to attract members, try doing something worthwhile for the employees. How about getting us better health care at a lower cost. It's amazing to me that small city, county, state governments and small companies can provide their employees a health plan at little to no cost with ten times the benefits. You can't tell me that OPM can't negotiate a better deal than what we get...especially with the number of subscribers we provide. I'm sure if they threatened to pull the government from the roles of BC/BS, it would bring them to their knees. Do something constructive AFGE...you might be surprised at the number of new members you might sign on.
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7152
People on this board are really sounding as if they are mentally unstable and should check out the Employee Assistance Plan.
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7150
Poor Richard and Mr. Combs;
Why do you stay in the Federal service if your lives are so bad?
Mr. Combs - How is the rising price of healthcare President Bush's fault? Was it President Clinton's fault when Clinton was in office? I can understand if you want everyone to have the same LEVEL of health care, but that is different from everyone having ACCESS to health care (which everyone does, whether you can pay for it or not - if you don't think so, check the number of emergency rooms that have closed over the past 10 years because they are mandated by law to treat patients regardless of payment ability or insurance coverage.) By the way, you know who wrote the original HMO law that led us to the situation today, right? Ted Kennedy - the same hypocrite that excoriates HMOs every chance he gets. But back when he led the legislation, the Dems were in control. Funny how programs become evil when you're out of power.
And having been a union member, Poor Richard, I do know of what I speak. My previous union spent all their time protecting dead weight and doing far more than 50% of their work time doing union business. No thanks. If unions are so in touch with their constituencies, why do they go to court to get collective bargaining rights for the employees who don't want them as representatives? Oh, that's right. Because those employees are too stupid to know what's good for them.
You both do understand that Federal civil service is voluntary at-will employment. If the people you disagree with are so evil and stupid since they don't agree with your opinions, you should get together and open a consulting firm. I'm sure you'll be beating business away from your door.
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7128
Being a Liberal is not a bad thing. Look up the definition in the dictonary. I think some of the comments are very visceral and mean-spirited. We are all Americans, please try to behave as adults and demonstrate some of the behaviors you moan and groan to others about.
I thought the election simply showed that America is spilt almost 50/50 about what we want our country to represent. To me, one of the joys of being an American is that we can voice our opinions and vote our choices without fear of intimidation and hostility.
As Federal Employees we ought to want to simply do our best for the American people whose taxes we spend to help support their needs of citizenship.
I was not happy Bush was re-elected. Yet, he is our President. That's how it is. Union member, leader, or non-union, let's just do the best we can.
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7127
To all you federal employees who were stupid enough to vote for Shrub may God answer your prayers and give you what you deserve, a freeze in pay, continued dismantling of the Civil Service Act, cuts in health care, and lowered pensions. Then when you are shivering in your homes because you can't afford heat and are eating cat food, think of how you stopped all those nasty gays from marrying and baby killers from helping women and may your moral standards keep you warm and fed as you starve and freeze to death. True Christianity, which I firmly believe has no place in government, is all about God's love and forgiveness. It is not about denying people their rights and demonizing them because you don't agree with them. The next time a heterosexual marriage is damaged because two men or women who love each other are allowed to marry, give me a call. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality or abortion, he consorted with prostitutes and forgave everyone. So, God forgive all you rightwing so called "Christians", because I cannot. You are actually worshipping the anti-Christ. Think about that as you are snatched by the jaws of Hell.
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7124
Here's what the unions failed to recognize that 51% of the public did not fail to recognize this election. As a Bush supporter, I will readily admit that Kerry's message on the items unions are typically interested in (employee rights, pay, outsourcing, etc.) rang truer than the four years of experience with Bush. However, and this is a BIG however, my right to the kinds of things unions supposedly protect is irrelevant if our national security is compromised. Bush held the trump card - national security strength - one of the prime tenants of a president and now more important than ever. As a result, THIS union member (along with MANY of his union friends) voted for Bush.
As an aside to individual employees of the federal government, whether union members or not...I'm tired of hearing about the pay and benefit disparity that we have in the government. Look around your neighborhood. You are not the poorest, you aren't the last one to arrive home at night (and if you stayed late you were compensated unlike your private sector neighbor), and you can go to sleep at night with job security comfort. Please set aside the entitlement talk and continue to cherish the important things in life - your family, your faith (whatever that may be), and your own life.
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7107
Just goes to show whose side the Union works for - THEIRS! Not the employees they claim to represent. They should have polled their members to see HOW to represent THEM! Unions and EEOC SHOULD put forth every effort to HELP the employees - NOT the employer - and NOT "play politics". Unfortunately, this is NOT the case. I KNOW! I've "been there - done that'!" I'm so GLAD President Bush WON!!
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7099
Maybe the union leaders should open their eyes and stop being so one dimensional. Mr. Kerry promised many things to many people, many being mutually exclusive. What was he really promising? The president has many more issues to deal with than their narrow concerns and we need a leader whose vision has genuine moral integrity. If my job is needed by the Federal Government and I and my teammates continue to do a better job than anyone else could do, we'll not only keep our jobs, and we'll progress.
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7093
John Kerry thought the second amendment was about hunting and he tried to portray that in his campaign. He is so out of touch, the second amendment is not about hunting, it is about the right to self-defense. When President Bush stated in one of the debates that American citizens have the right to self-defense and John Kerry launched into a tirade about the so-called "assault weapons bill", I knew right then that John Kerry was out of touch with the Constitution and would not support the second admendment as it is written. There are other issues such as the war on terror, which I think President Bush is doing a good job at fighting terrorism, the admitting that social security needs to be fixed by President Bush, and other issues. I firmly believe that President Bush has for the most part the bests interest of the country on the issues he is tackling.
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7091
Speaking of asinine theories in this particlar forum, the one about unions being out of touch with their members is the most asinine of all. Folks in glass houses should not be so quick to throw stones, especially when it is highly probable they are not even union members themselves.
Poor Richard
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7086
Ms. Palmer: Does the Exit Poll data you cite in your article - 40% of Union members who voted for Bush - reflect ONLY members of Federal Unions, or is this data for ALL union members? I don't believe there was an exit poll done just with Federal Union Workers. I think you need to clarify this & identify your anti-Union bias as a writer for Government Executive. Thanks.
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7081
A foreign President in 2008?? Are you serious? You DO KNOW that this would require a Constitutional amendment, right? An amendment which would have to be passed by both houses of Congress and then RATIFIED BY THE STATES?? I think we have bigger issues to be concerned with than this asinine conspiracy theory.
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7079
"Their jobs are being outsourced, wages are lower, health care costs are higher than ever, there's no certainty for their jobs whatsoever. It seemed like all those issues didn't matter, and they just went on social and cultural issues," he added.
The issues do matter. Since the democrats under Pres. Clinton started outsourcing, workers had no confidence that John Kerry could deliver on any of his promises. The republican Senate and House would resist any changes in the outsourcing policies of the government.
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7071
All you BUSH followers... Listen up. Maybe you like Bush and that's ok. But I'll tell you one thing. I don't want a foreign person being my president in 2008. That's just one of the things he and his party are trying to do for 2008 election. Maybe you would like it but I don't. Another thing, I am a DOD employee and believe me I don't like the new pay system they are putting into effect. Just so you understand, this is how it will work. I am at work everyday and get all the work that's handed out to me and some done. Now I will get all the same amount of work, but I will also get the bosses "pet's" work also. Will I get any rewards for this, no. The "pet" will get a huge pay raise and anything that goes along with that. Me I will get a BIG FAT ZERO!!!
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7064
Unions started dying when their leaders put their desire for power and influence before the needs of their members. Soon, AFGE will be just another lobby group and federal workers will seek representation by some other group.
Is it any wonder that the federal government can't hire enough professional workers when there are so many abuses of worker rights and no support from federal Unions?
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7062
IAM and IFPTE are pipsqueak unions. Does AFGE and NTEU feel the same way? If so, there might be an article here. Otherwise, you have one Bush supporter from Utah, one former union member with an ax to grind, and general union numbers that might not correlate with how federal union members voted.
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7061
Here's a thought. Let's say the union leadership endorsed Bush and 66% of union members still voted for Kerry. I suggest Ms. Palmer's headline would have read;
"ELECTION REVEALS INSPIRED AND PROPHETIC UNION LEADERSHIP DESPITE OUT OF TOUCH MEMBERS."
Poor Richard
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7058
If 40% of union members are registered republicans and four out of ten union members vote republican (both statements in this article) then I don't see where Ms. Palmer draws the conclusion that there is a gap between union leadership and union members. Four out of ten is 40% all day long - even in the government.
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7055
Yet more shoddy and biased reporting by this web site. Where shall I begin? 66-68% of ALL union members nationwide (federal and private sector) voted for Kerry from what I have heard. That is about the same percentage as 2000. You conveniently fail to point out how federal employee union members voted. For all we know, it may be even higher for Kerry. And where exactly did you find the "many members celebrating" W's victory. How many is "many?" How do you know the celebrants were union members? Do you have a count or percentage? Photographs? Did I miss the party? Finally quoting non-union members on an article about how union members vote is disingenuous at best and more likely just plain dishonest.
While I understand Mr. Carelli's frustration at a third of Union members not seeing things his way, perspective is needed. Your assertion that there is a "disconnect between leadership and those they represent" is ridiculous. The reality is candidates will kill for a grouping of voters who can support them at a 66% rate. Duh, that is overwhelming support and clearly shows unions nationwide are in touch with their members! 66% is a disconnect but 51% is a mandate??? But what of the 1/3 who voted for Bush? I for one totally disagree with their choice but also totally respect them for their decision. Everyone has to search their own conscience for the right choice and we as a nation have been doing that for the last 200+ years.
Unions make endorsements and advise MEMBERS of the selected candidates and their positions on job related issues. My union polled MEMBERS and Kerry was the clear choice. Not everyone chooses to vote their job. Ultimately who you support for elected office is a very personal decision. I would hope no one walks lockstep based on any endorsement. An endorsement is just another bit of information that goes into making that personal choice.
Poor Richard
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7053
Mr. Carelli states in the article that he doesn't understand what AFL-CIO members were thinking of when they voted for George Bush. This one statement explains why the Unions are outdated and out of touch. The AFL-CIO members, along with other Government union members, voted for President Bush because they put the country's interests ahead of their own and certainly ahead of the Union's interests. Imagine that - Government employees who actually put country before self. We use to call those people Patriots. Now the Union calls them stupid.
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7051
I understand the split. Your immortal soul vs your job. It was a hard decision for me, too. However, I question the sanity of any fed who likes the administration's personnel policy and attitude.
How many federal managers voted for Kerry?
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7048
I'm one of those government employees that voted for President Bush in spite of AFGE's support of John Kerry. I don't like some of the President's policies, either...but, I'm not going to let a union dictate to me who I should vote for. When I decide who I vote for, I look at the entire big picture...not just work-related issues. After having seen the big picture as it relates to both candidates, I could only vote for President Bush as the better candidate. Unions need to encourage workers to make the best choice in their eyes, not who the Union thinks would fatten their wallet.
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7046
"Maybe," he said, "we didn't spend enough time talking about competitive sourcing."
All the unions do is talk about it, how bout' doing something for your members besides spreading misinformation and buying political influence?
The fact is few members are impacted by competitive sourcing: Hello! check the numbers... the government is winning 90% of the time. The private sector doesn't even bother to bid on most competitions. If the unions wanted to do something positive given the next four years of upcoming competition, try this: Establish a Competitive Sourcing Program Office and staff it with experts available to union members in competitions. The results would improve government, enfranchise and protect union members. A consistent number of wins would also keep private contractor interest low. But its probably more fun for the unions to go on using dues to buy lobbyists.
FED up with unions
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7045
Union membership and leadership is not what it was in the past. The members are mostly college educated who were instructed that unions are bad and raised in an era when employees did not need to fight to gain benefits - companies figured out give them some poor benefits and the employees will not ask for more. Most persons are focused on their own satisfaction and needs and do not see the need to stand together and union leadership does not see this problem, because they are the same. I have watched other unions where the stewards go to a plant and sit and talk with management and not the employees. The employees will not even attend the union meetings. The employees believe that the company gives them the benefits because the company likes them. They did not see the fights that the coal miners, autoworkers, steelworkers, etc. fought to gain benefits. When I felt that management was not fair in their dealings with employees the clerical staff agreed and stood with me, but the higher paid union members felt they could not take any type of action against management, because that action would not be fair to management. Someday when the companies and government take away benefits (medical and leave) the employees will wake up, but by then I'll be long gone. Unfortunately I believe you are fighting a losing battle and the current American workers do not have the sense God gave a goose. Also, John Kerry was a lousy choice for a presidential candidate, he should have had an insurmountable lead in March, but he and the party did not know how to address the issues and President Bush's past actions.
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7044
This story illustrates how out of touch union leadership is with the rank and file. It also illustrated how liberal their thinking is. How could they in clear conscience support the positions that the democratic candidate took? They should not be in leadership over an ethics driven workforce. Most federal employees are honest, fair-minded people. The democratic candidate's most egregious positions were his support of gay rights and the right for a woman to murder her unborn child. He was and is clearly anti-family. A strong family structure is the backbone of any strong nation.
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