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Top Homeland Security Department officials met with representatives of the two largest federal employee unions on Thursday to discuss the next steps in the department's personnel reform.

Deputy Secretary Michael Jackson, Undersecretary for Management Janet Hale and Chief Human Capital Officer Ron James sat down with National Treasury Employees Union President Colleen Kelley and American Federation of Government Employees General Counsel Mark Roth less than a week after a judge ruled parts of DHS' proposed personnel system were illegal.

NTEU and AFGE, along with three other unions, brought a lawsuit against much of the labor relations portion of the new personnel system. Judge Rosemary Collyer of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled on Aug. 12 that the system failed to provide binding contracts for employees, because agency officials had the power to override collective bargaining agreements.

On Monday, Kelley wrote a letter to DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff, saying this decision presents "a new opportunity" to develop a personnel system that NTEU can stand by, and requesting a meeting with the secretary as soon as possible.

"I was pleased with the immediate response from DHS and welcomed the opportunity to sit down with Deputy Secretary Jackson," Kelley said. "He indicated a desire to work with NTEU in the future and listened to my suggestions on how to proceed. NTEU will continue our efforts to achieve a personnel process that helps accomplish the multiple missions of the department while respecting the rights of federal employees."

Kelley said that the two sides did not speak about specifics of the lawsuit; instead she asked the DHS officials to use the occasion of the judge's ruling to "really take a fresh look" at their personnel rules.

Kelley also said that in the course of the meeting she asked for Jackson and other DHS officials to meet with her and "rank-and-file employees" at a port somewhere in the country to help identify the concerns of DHS workers. Kelley said she left the meeting thinking that event was a real possibility.

DHS spokesman Larry Orluskie said the meeting was just one in a long line of discussions the agency has held with the unions about personnel reform, beginning when the draft regulations were first announced and continuing through a lengthy meet-and-confer period.

"The unions have been a partner with us from the beginning," Orluskie said.

He also said he is "certain" future meetings will be held, although no dates have been set.

According to AFGE's Roth, the two sides agreed it is a good idea to continue discussions.

"We had a good meeting in which we put our issues on the table and discussed them in a civil manner," Roth said.

The department has until Oct. 11 to file an appeal. A spokesman for the department said Thursday they were still reviewing the court ruling to make that decision.

Kelley said she hoped the department would even reconsider portions of their plan that were not included in the lawsuit. Collyer's ruling did not touch on the planned pay-for-performance system.

COMMENTS

• What a lovely gathering of DHS and Union folks. Let's see, NTEU gets smacked by the DC Circuit on collective bargaining in the Customs case a few weeks ago and now wins a very narrow ruling by a single judge and its hailed as a major victory for collective bargaining. NTEU and other Unions were on the DHS Design team and have been talking for months and months- I agree with Poor Richard, friends and partners don't sue. Friends and partners work out their differences. The real loser in all of this are the bargaining unit employees while their senior Union leadership continues to see out photo ops. Let's see how many DHS and DoD employees want to work under the pay for performance regimes. This aspect of the HR reforms wasn't even addressed because the Unions are fixated on their own rights, and not the rights and protections of their employees. I still very much believe that a single judicial voice will not stop this runaway train. HR Specialist GovExec.com reader Posted August 24, 2005 8:48 AM
• The AFGE spends way too much time on trivial BS. So much so that I really believe the union is not good for the mission of some organizations. Civilians rights will bump into the military way of doing things forever. We can't have it both ways. Won't work! mike kelley Posted August 24, 2005 8:06 AM
• Orluskie said, "The unions have been a partner with us from the beginning." Give me a break! Was Orluskie holding his nose as he spewed such garbage? Partners don't file lawsuits to get the attention of the other partner. What Orluskie should have said is, "Since the beginning of this process, we have purposedly ignored the unions and we are having this meeting for appearance sake while we figure out how to successfully appeal the judge's decision." Poor Richard GovExec.com reader Posted August 19, 2005 8:57 AM